Car & Driver - winter tire test

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Originally Posted By: krzyss
They took as as reference point as predictable looser.
Winners are in virtual tie:
Hakkapeliitta R2 and Michelin Xice Xi-3.

3rd is new Continental WinterContact Si.

I would call it a looser: 4th place - Bridgestone Blizzak WS80.
If you can afford Blizzak - buy Michelin or save money and buy Continental. Sorry.

Then Dunlop Winter Maxx, Yokohama iceGUARD iG52c and mentioned earlier all season Michelin that is known to suck in winter.

Krzys

Krzys

I was thinking to give it a try to Michelin Latitude Xi2 for X5, but trying to get Continental SI since they look more capable in deep snow and slush.
That is my problem with Michelin, they suck in anything deeper then 4inches, and not to mention hitting slush at 50-60mph.
I have WS70 on Tiguan, drove 70mph on packed snow on I25, and goes through deep snow as long as car can physically push it.
 
C&D seems to disagree with your observations.
The only thing that WS80 aced was snow braking where it matched R2. It was worse in all the other tests: snow handling, snow acceleration, ice acceleration, ice braking.

Krzys
 
Originally Posted By: krzyss
C&D seems to disagree with your observations.
The only thing that WS80 aced was snow braking where it matched R2. It was worse in all the other tests: snow handling, snow acceleration, ice acceleration, ice braking.

Krzys

IDK, I drove all my life on snow,had anything from Good Year Ug4,5,6, 7, 7+, Continental TS 810, 830, Hankook, Blizzaks etc.
I might give it a try to Xi2 since they are like $166 for 235/60 R18, and thinking I will compensate with experience if they suck in deep snow and slush. For me that is important because as soon as I see coming blizzard, I hit mountains to ski.
R2 in that dimension are almost $80 more then Xi2.
 
I have Xi3's on my Cruze and they are good overall in snow and ice. They also feel more like an all season when the roads are dry and wet compared to Blizzak's I've had in the past, not quite so soft. They do not seem to do as well in deep snow and when it is thick, wet slush, they don't want to go thru that at all. Fuel Economy is nearly identical to my Good Year Assurance Fuel Max tires however.

In the past on other cars I've used almost stricly Blizzak and have loved almost all the models I've had (WS-15, WS-50, MZ-02, DM-V1, DM-Z3). None are great when dry or wet however, the Michelin's are better for that.

One time I bought Goodyear GW-2's for my Grand Prix. They were targeted towards police cars. Horrible fuel economy, great dry and wet handling (close to a performance all season), great deep snow, very mediocre ice traction. Kind of loud too.

The problem with some of these tests is, they only test on ice at a certain temp, not all temps., same with the snow. There are infinite types of snow conditions. The temp of the snow when it fell, flake size, current temps, ground temp vs. air temp. All this changes what the snow is like to drive on and some do better in some conditions than others. Regardless, any of the winter tires they tested are far better than an all season tire and you'll likely be happy with any of them.
 
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
I have Xi3's on my Cruze and they are good overall in snow and ice. They also feel more like an all season when the roads are dry and wet compared to Blizzak's I've had in the past, not quite so soft. They do not seem to do as well in deep snow and when it is thick, wet slush, they don't want to go thru that at all. Fuel Economy is nearly identical to my Good Year Assurance Fuel Max tires however.


Whats amazing to me is that the Xice3's are rated "Low Rolling Resistance" LRR tires just like the Assurance Fuel Max tires. And 40,000 treadwear warranty in the Xice3's too.

Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
The problem with some of these tests is, they only test on ice at a certain temp, not all temps., same with the snow. .

The physics are complicated enough to where testing just ends up looking at one narrow condition. Ice performance is done by lots of sipes and pits in the tread, so you can tell which snow tire will do the best on ice by looking at how "busy" the tiny tread shapes are. Snow performance is by large tread blocks on the outboard side mostly, with continuous sections in the middle to keep snow from piling up there.
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Whats amazing to me is that the Xice3's are rated "Low Rolling Resistance" LRR tires just like the Assurance Fuel Max tires. And 40,000 treadwear warranty in the Xice3's too.

BTW, Hakka R2 is LRR as well, but no treadwear warranty that I know of.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
.
BTW, Hakka R2 is LRR as well, but no treadwear warranty that I know of.

Never seen a --- what do they call them, Hakka FurBall tires? --- anywhere. At least thats one more LRR snow tire. Progress.
 
The Hakka R2s definitely meet the LRR claim in the SUV version. No mpg penalty at all compared to my summers (maybe even a slight gain) and they're quieter too.
 
Originally Posted By: LotI
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Too bad they did not test General Altimax Arctic. I'd be curious where it would place.


CR test puts it in 7th behind:
Xi3
Hakka R2
Blizzak WS80
Cooper WSC
Toyo G3-ice
Conti Si



They should list performance for the dollar ratio...it would be a different list then...
 
Originally Posted By: krzyss
They took as as reference point as predictable looser.
Winners are in virtual tie:
Hakkapeliitta R2 and Michelin Xice Xi-3.

3rd is new Continental WinterContact Si.

I would call it a looser: 4th place - Bridgestone Blizzak WS80.
If you can afford Blizzak - buy Michelin or save money and buy Continental. Sorry.

Then Dunlop Winter Maxx, Yokohama iceGUARD iG52c and mentioned earlier all season Michelin that is known to suck in winter.

Krzys

Krzys



Tire Rack disagrees in there testing and video. The Bridgstone ws80, edges out xi3 in ice and snow traction, stopping distance, cornering ability.

Tire rack testing.
 
Where?

WS80 beats Xi3 on ice in acceleration but looses in braking:

Tire

60' Acceleration (seconds)

12 - 0 mph Stopping Distance (feet)


Bridgestone Blizzak WS80 4.554 30.9
Michelin X-Ice Xi3 4.644 30.3

But in snow testing Bridgestone edges out Michelin.

Apparently Swedish snow was better for Bridgestone and Finnish snow better for Michelin.

CR does not post raw numbers and Xi3 and WS80 got matching circles in all categories except noise where Michelin was quieter. Maybe American snow was neutral ;-)

Krzys
 
The results of tire tests always have different results. I have never seen two testers totally agree on results.

If you go by owners, well many of them don't even know what tires they have used. Like well "ain't all them Michelins the same".
 
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
The results of tire tests always have different results. I have never seen two testers totally agree on results.

If you go by owners, well many of them don't even know what tires they have used. Like well "ain't all them Michelins the same".


All true. (clever handle name too BTW) The situation is complicated, as is the topic of tires. Different needs, conditions, vehicles, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Shark
.Alpins are not a snow tire, but rather a "winter" tire for performance cars..
Ditto for the Goodyear Eagle GW3, a V speed rated tire snow tire for pete's sake! I had a pair a while back. Good overall. Popular with police vehicles in cold climates. Not mentioned in this thread yet but a good choice.

goodyear-eagle-ultra-grip-gw-3_2.jpg



My new wintertyres are W-rated....

cross-climate-2.jpg
 
Jetronic, those are not going to do well on ice. Ice is bad enough, but needs more sipes, dimples. Is that tire Snowflake on the Mountain rated? My Eagle Ultra Grip GW3's had trouble on ice for the most part.
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Jetronic, those are not going to do well on ice.

Maybe there isn't a lot of ice down in the park?
 
You do know that LRR is relative to other tires in class right?

A LRR winter tire wont be comparable to a LRR standard touring type tire.

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
I have Xi3's on my Cruze and they are good overall in snow and ice. They also feel more like an all season when the roads are dry and wet compared to Blizzak's I've had in the past, not quite so soft. They do not seem to do as well in deep snow and when it is thick, wet slush, they don't want to go thru that at all. Fuel Economy is nearly identical to my Good Year Assurance Fuel Max tires however.


Whats amazing to me is that the Xice3's are rated "Low Rolling Resistance" LRR tires just like the Assurance Fuel Max tires. And 40,000 treadwear warranty in the Xice3's too.

Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
The problem with some of these tests is, they only test on ice at a certain temp, not all temps., same with the snow. .

The physics are complicated enough to where testing just ends up looking at one narrow condition. Ice performance is done by lots of sipes and pits in the tread, so you can tell which snow tire will do the best on ice by looking at how "busy" the tiny tread shapes are. Snow performance is by large tread blocks on the outboard side mostly, with continuous sections in the middle to keep snow from piling up there.
 
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Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Jetronic, those are not going to do well on ice. Ice is bad enough, but needs more sipes, dimples. Is that tire Snowflake on the Mountain rated? My Eagle Ultra Grip GW3's had trouble on ice for the most part.



3 peak mountain and snowflake rated....

they'll be a [censored] sight better than my pirelli summers with 4mm left on them
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Jetronic, those are not going to do well on ice.

Maybe there isn't a lot of ice down in the park?


last year 1 day, the year before no freezing at all... the year before there was snow on and off until end of march....

this year I had 1 frozen windshield in the moring, so far... and temps are in the low 60s during the day, and predicted mid 50s for tonight....


Michelin says it's a summer tyre with winter capabilities... Michelin crossclimate
 
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