AS Tires vs Winter+Summer Tires

[SubLGT]

Here is an interesting, short article on winter tires, written by a tire engineer:

http://www.tirereview.com/Article/100150/dedicated_summer_winter_tires_offer_yearround_service.aspx

Some excerpts:

"Looking at basic performance factors, all-season tires can handle just about any possible road condition that comes up – and do so in a mediocre fashion. Tire performance is a series of trade-offs and finding parity in traction between wet, dry and snow conditions compromises grip."


"The tread rubber is the most critical component of a tire’s tractive performance............................
I recall an experiment at one of my previous employers. Using a summer tread pattern, a variety of tread compounds were used for snow traction and handling evaluation. A summer tread pattern made with a winter tread compound improved straight-line traction by almost 400%.

As for snow handling, well, the test driver was able to drive to the test course on the winter tread compound and then perform the needed testing. The winter treaded tire with a summer compound, though, would not allow him to even leave the garage. "

 

[Astro14]

Yep...and when I lived in Vermont, I had dedicated snow tires and summer/all-season tires...

There is simply no comparison between modern winter tires and all seasons...and I saw wreck after wreck of cars (and SUVs ) equipped with all-seasons.

The only people who drove on all season tires in Vermont winters were the tourists and recent transplants who were too dumb to know the difference...don't even get me started on this phrase "but I have 4 wheel drive"...sure...good luck getting back down the hill...

Here in the mid-Atlantic, we might get snow once a year...and for that, I have Nokian WR G2s, which are a winter tire that can be run all year...not quite as good in the snow/ice as my Hakkapeliitta snow tires, but close...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
I recall an experiment at one of my previous employers. Using a summer tread pattern, a variety of tread compounds were used for snow traction and handling evaluation. A summer tread pattern made with a winter tread compound improved straight-line traction by almost 400%.

As for snow handling, well, the test driver was able to drive to the test course on the winter tread compound and then perform the needed testing. The winter treaded tire with a summer compound, though, would not allow him to even leave the garage. "


This makes sense. Winter tire tread compounds are made so that they don't turn rock-hard in cold temps. This means they're soft in non-winter temps, which makes them super grippy. The tradeoffs are fast tread wear, and possibly poor performance at really high temps (i.e. fast driving on a hot day). Similarly, summer tread compounds are optimized for higher temps, so they get super hard when cold, and thus not very grippy.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
There is simply no comparison between modern winter tires and all seasons...and I saw wreck after wreck of cars (and SUVs ) equipped with all-seasons.

The only people who drove on all season tires in Vermont winters were the tourists and recent transplants who were too dumb to know the difference...don't even get me started on this phrase "but I have 4 wheel drive"...sure...good luck getting back down the hill...

Well said.

 

[SLCraig]

Dedicated summer/winter tires always for me. I value my life enough that it's worth the few hundred every few years for new snow tires.

 

[ctrcbob]

Picture this. The winter of 1962-1963. (Yes, I'm old!) I had a 1962 Buick Special Convertible while stationed in Down East Maine. The car came equiped with 7.00x13 "summer" tires. My first winter there. 1861-1962 I used those tires all winter, heavy snow, and never got stuck. Well, come the following winter, I decided to get "Snow Tires". Guess what. Got Stuck. I must have felt that if I never got stuck with summer tires, I'd never get stuck with Snow Tires. (wrong).

Lucky for me, Mainers are very friendly, and many of them carry a tow rope or chain, so someone pulled me out.

I started using Radial Tires around 1971-1972, when BFGoodrich was the first American comapny to introduce them. Installed them on my 1970 'Cuda 340. (guess those tires today would be called All Season tires). Even though the 'Cuda 340 had a lot of power, and even though most of the weight was over the front wheels, I never got stuck with that car either.

Since that time, I lived most of my life in the Rochester NY area, where we got lots of LAKE EFFECT SNOW. I mean lots of snow. Never got stuck using all season tires, both on RWD and on FWD. Just have to know how to drive in the snow. (Hope I'm not shooting myself in the foot if I have to drive to my Penfield address from Florida, in mid winter, for family emergencies, with my AWD SHO ).

 

[HerrStig]

I wouldn't discourage anyone in ME, NH, VT, or upstate NY, for example, from using winter tires. Near the coast, I have not had a problem with "all season" tires and front drive so long as the tires had good tread. Old New England rule of thumb... your progress will never be better than the guy in front of you on Baldini Visible Plies.

 

[MNgopher]

I used to be in all season tires are good enough for winter camp. Then I tired a set of snow tires on my Explorer, and I'm not going back - you can't have my snow tires back, no way, no how. I even have a set of dedicated snow tires now for my F150 4x4.

Modern snow tires make a huge difference. All season tires may be passable in the winter, but I don't want just passable. I want the best. For my safety and sanity. They really do make that much of a difference.

 

[A_Harman]

All-Season tires are a series of compromises and don't give the grip that I like in dry summer conditions, and the snow traction that makes driving comfortable in winter conditions. I'll never go back to all-season tires for winter driving. Spend the extra $600 for a set of dedicated winter tires. They'll pay for themselves the first time you have to stop or turn to avoid some spinning fool in an SUV that thought all-seasons were OK.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
1861-1962 I used those tires all winter, heavy snow, and never got stuck.


That was a long winter!!!

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
I recall an experiment at one of my previous employers. Using a summer tread pattern, a variety of tread compounds were used for snow traction and handling evaluation. A summer tread pattern made with a winter tread compound improved straight-line traction by almost 400%.

As for snow handling, well, the test driver was able to drive to the test course on the winter tread compound and then perform the needed testing. The winter treaded tire with a summer compound, though, would not allow him to even leave the garage. "


They must be talking about icy hardpack here. Tread pattern is everything in the soft or deep stuff.

 

[Scum_Frog]

ther is simply no comparison between a dedicated set of winter rubber over AS tires.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
Picture this. The winter of 1962-1963. (Yes, I'm old!) I had a 1962 Buick Special Convertible while stationed in Down East Maine. The car came equiped with 7.00x13 "summer" tires. My first winter there. 1861-1962 I used those tires all winter, heavy snow, and never got stuck. Well, come the following winter, I decided to get "Snow Tires". Guess what. Got Stuck. I must have felt that if I never got stuck with summer tires, I'd never get stuck with Snow Tires. (wrong).

Lucky for me, Mainers are very friendly, and many of them carry a tow rope or chain, so someone pulled me out.

I started using Radial Tires around 1971-1972, when BFGoodrich was the first American comapny to introduce them. Installed them on my 1970 'Cuda 340. (guess those tires today would be called All Season tires). Even though the 'Cuda 340 had a lot of power, and even though most of the weight was over the front wheels, I never got stuck with that car either.

Since that time, I lived most of my life in the Rochester NY area, where we got lots of LAKE EFFECT SNOW. I mean lots of snow. Never got stuck using all season tires, both on RWD and on FWD. Just have to know how to drive in the snow. (Hope I'm not shooting myself in the foot if I have to drive to my Penfield address from Florida, in mid winter, for family emergencies, with my AWD SHO ).


Chief - that's why I said modern...if you ever find yourself traveling in snow country again, you owe it to yourself to try some new, modern, winter tires...Hakkapelliittas are simply unbelievable in the snow...and AWD is meaningless...99% of the accidents I've seen are the result of being unable to STOP or TURN...and AWD makes no difference then...

And I was one of those Vermonters carrying both jumper cables and tow strap...but the flatlanders preferred to get a "professional tow"...ayep...whatever you say...

 

[charbaby]

I guess that it all depends on the EXACT type of winter that folks experience. In my area, we really have quite good snow removal and the Hiwy Dept uses tons & tons of road salt. And although I hate what the salt does to our vehicles, I haven't had the need for dedicated snows since the late 60's/70's with rear wheel drive ONLY vehicles.

With FWD and good A/S tires, we're good to go!

Oh sure, once every decade we experience that "National News Blizzard" and I don't care what vehicle your driving nor the tires that are on that vehicle, you're screwed if you're driving through it! I was, and I still made it home although a 20 minute drive took me 2 hours, believe it or not!

"PTL" for a full tank of gas and a good heater(and newish A/S tires/wiperblades and prayers). Being prepaired is the key and I guess that Dedicated Winter Snow/Ice tires is also being prepaired, Hmmmm?

 

[Rand]

Its funny how the people who dont have snow tires are the ones that dont need them..

And everyone that has snow tires wouldnt trade them for anything.

snow tires cost less than my deductible and its really only an upfront cost not much of an additional cost.
because your summer tires last longer.

note: I'm not trying to be mean or anything.

 

[D189379]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Its funny how the people who dont have snow tires are the ones that dont need them..



Why is that funny?

I don't have race tires and I don't need them.

 

[Samilcar]

Has anyone driven on dedicated winter tires in winter conditions, and then made the decision to go back to all-seasons? Not trying to be rude here, I really want to know.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Rand
And everyone that has snow tires wouldnt trade them for anything.


I was definitely impressed with the snow tires that the old Audi had. That car was pretty decent in the snow even with all seasons.

Even the cab fleets up here have started using winter tires. Years back, it was all seasons year round, but the winter tire technology has improved so much that the owners actually go out and get them now.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Has anyone driven on dedicated winter tires in winter conditions, and then made the decision to go back to all-seasons?

I sort of have.

I've got two sets of tires for my 530i: all-seasons and winters. In the past, I would put on the winter tires for winter time. However, last winter, due to the fact that I was doing very little driving, I decided not to bother with the swap and just stayed with all-seasons for the winter. I managed, but it wasn't as pleasant as with dedicated winter tires. Taking off, braking, turning wasn't great, but manageable - you need to go much slower and leave plenty of room between you and others on the road to keep yourself out of trouble. If the amount of my driving increases next winter, I will definitely be putting my winter tires back on.

However, if my all-season tires (Bridgestone RE960) were less performance oriented and more winter-oriented, like some tires out there, I may have been fine. For example, my wife's C300 has all-seasons (Conti DWS) and her car handled the last winter just fine. Granted, she has AWD, but AWD does nothing for turning and braking, yet she did not have any problems there.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Has anyone driven on dedicated winter tires in winter conditions, and then made the decision to go back to all-seasons?


I did, but not because I wasn't satisfied with the winters. They were just too worn out, and it was near the end of winter, so I put my all seasons on earlier than I normally would have.