Car destroyed, need advice on getting satisfaction

[JHZR2]

Hi,

Here is the deal. I had a beautiful, like new 1983 MB 300D turbodiesel. This past July 30th, I was driving on the interstate, and my car as well as two others were damaged by a young girl not paying attention. My car took the brunt of the impact, and has $6800 worth of damage. Although it was in A1 shape, it is totaled.

The problem is this. According to PA law, drivers can be excluded from others' insurance policies, in order to keep costs down, etc. This means that the excluded person cannot drive the car that they are excluded from driving. And, if they do drive it and cause a problem, the vehicle owner is liable for all damages.

The girl that hit my car was driving a car that she was excluded from driving. Therefore there is no insurance in force to cover her liability.

My insurance company claims that since the car that hit mine was insured (for the actual owner), that there is an insurance policy on it, and an uninsured claim cannot be filed. They will not provide me with actual addresses or information for either the guilty driver or the car owner.

The way I see it, I have many plausible cases against thge owner and the driver:
1) the driver was technically driving uninsured, so at least should loose their license
2) the owner of the car allowed usage of their vehicle in an uninsured state
3) the driver was negligent in their driving ability given the situation and traffic pattern
4)the owner allowed negligent entrustment, since they are responsible for knowing that the driver using their car was excluded from the policy

Neither the car owner or driver are over 24 years old. They are independent, however, and as such I cannot go after the parents.

Here's the deal. I have the SSN, DL# and DL address of the driver who caused the accident. I have the insurance policy number and policyholder's address, which is the owner of the car. This address is also that of the parent, whose phone number I was able to lookup and find.

From a friend, I was able to find out that the address that the car owner moved to (different from that on the insurance card). I was also able to find the SSN of the driver, and the fact that she lives in a house that she rents from a landlord who resides in Wilmington.

My problem is that I am stuck now. My plans are to file small claims suits in the county in which they reside, so that the local sheriff can serve the suits to them, and collect if needs be. However, I have never done this before.

I have the claim paper, which I fill out. It is very short, like there is nothing to it. I am worried, in that I need to make sure I do everything right.

Does anyone have any expertise or advice they can give regarding my next actions, anything special that I need to do, etc? I wish that I would have had time to do this earlier, but I have been extremely busy with work. I have collected lots of good info on my car's actual value, etc., have all the police reports, information, and so on. I hope to give them the suit claims for Christmas, so I need to get stuff done.

If anyone has info or advice they can provide, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for your time and reading my message.

Thanks,

JMH

 

[medic]

quote:

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Originally posted by JHZR2:
My plans are to file small claims suits in the county in which they reside, so that the local sheriff can serve the suits to them, and collect if needs be. However, I have never done this before.

---

I would check to make sure that any decision made by the "small claims court" will hold up outside of the court before wasting nay time and money.

In NY, "small claims courts" can order someone to pay restitution, but this is very hard to collect because the regular courts and the police do not recognize these orders.

It is possible that you will end up with a judgement and still no $$$.

I would consider claiming it on my insurance (I have one free claim) and then let the insurance companies battle it out.

 

[eljefino]

There must be a way to claim it on your own uninsured/underinsured policy. Keep after your own insurance company; they will keep after the actual liable party once they've paid you. You could see a $50-for-half-an-hour mall lawyer to represent YOUR interests; the ins co is covering theirs. Get a couple of letters from that lawyer for that fee, one to the party and one to your insurance company demanding action (your lawyer will know what, specifically) I repeat, your own insurance company is jerking you around; bring your policy to an independent attorney.

If the owner of the car that hit you has any real estate*, take them to court, get a judgement, and put a lien on their stuff if they don't pay. They'll find the money. Expect numerous sob stories about sick aunts in the hostpital etc but don't waver.

*almost never that lucky

[ December 12, 2004, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: eljefino ]

 

[Al]

What a bummer

. I can't imagine that your insurance agent will not help you on this. I know mine would. First I would bug my insurance to death and threaten with leaving the company.

I think the limit on small claims is $2000, but I could be wrong. In any event I wouldn't go this route except as a last resort. Tough to collect. If you do name him, her, and his insurance company, and maybe yours also that might get someone's attention. You can also specify a $2000 or whatever for the girl, the, guy, your insurance, and his insurance....that (I believe gets you away from that limit)

Unfortunately if your insurance doesn't come up with the money I would get a lawyer.

I still think that your insurance company would go after theirs-push this issue.

Sounds like this is one of those deals where the guy and the girl had a relationship and now its over yadayadayada..

Who is fixing her/his car??? If its his insurance they need to fix yours also. I still say the owner of the vehicle (and his insurance) is responsible. Sorry I don't know more.

 

[labman]

I would be very disappointed in the insurance company. I am still bad mouthing State Farm for their lack of support when I was in an accident 10-15 years ago. All they were interested was getting my car fixed cheap.

I was working 3rd shift at the time. They bungled the paperwork too, costing me several days sleep. Been insured with American Family Home since. I do think yor local agent may be more important than the company.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by labman:
I do think yor local agent may be more important than the company.

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Yea-I think he should take an active role in this case-if not fire his/her arse.

 

[ekpolk]

Of course, if you have the temerity to actually go take your case to court, you'll immediately be cast as one of those free lunch "frivolous" lawsuit people. Amazing where things have gone in the last 25 years. . .

 

[rjundi]

Your only going to get replacement value for your car. I have a feeling a 1983 Mercedes does not approach $6800 unfortunately. Bummer....

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by ekpolk:
Of course, if you have the temerity to actually go take your case to court, you'll immediately be cast as one of those free lunch "frivolous" lawsuit people. Amazing where things have gone in the last 25 years. . .

---

The view varies according to where one is standing.

My stuff, your **** .
My attorney, your shyster.
.....

The "frivolous lawsuit" folks will jump for the opportunity to get a laywer as readily as anyone else when the system takes dump on them.

 

[JayhawkRoy]

Sorry about your situation.
1. Pls clarify whether you have collision insurance on your car. If so, pursue a claim with your insurance company and they should be required to fix the car (you are liable for the cost of the collision deductible). That gets your car fixed or a payment made to you if it is totaled. Let the insurance company go after the guilty parties. That is the easiest course of action, from your perspective.
2. If you have to go to court, small claims court may not have authority to take your claim. The $6800+ claim is higher than what small claims courts in Kansas can adjudicate. You are left with hiring a lawyer and doing a full-fledged civil suit.
3. I would check with PA DMV or Commissioner of Insurance on finding out whether uninsured motorists are required to post an insurance bond when they have a wreck. In MO (before it had a compulsory insurance requirement -- 1960's or 1970's), you could drive uninsured, but had to post a $25,000 bond if you did have a wreck. That was the "penalty" for driving uninsured and having an accident. The state insurance commissioner was responsible for ensuring the bond got posted, but it usually took urging from the injured party to get this done. DMV also suspended your license until the bond was posted. I would see if PA has similar laws/procedures.

 

[FL-400S]

Sorry about your car, but at least you were safe in that Tank when it happened. My unc had a couple of those benzes and man were they tanks.

This is a situation where "whoopings" should be justified. Pay up sucker.

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

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Originally posted by JayhawkRoy:
Sorry about your situation.
1. Pls clarify whether you have collision insurance on your car. If so, pursue a claim with your insurance company and they should be required to fix the car (you are liable for the cost of the collision deductible). That gets your car fixed or a payment made to you if it is totaled. Let the insurance company go after the guilty parties. That is the easiest course of action, from your perspective.
2. If you have to go to court, small claims court may not have authority to take your claim. The $6800+ claim is higher than what small claims courts in Kansas can adjudicate. You are left with hiring a lawyer and doing a full-fledged civil suit.
3. I would check with PA DMV or Commissioner of Insurance on finding out whether uninsured motorists are required to post an insurance bond when they have a wreck. In MO (before it had a compulsory insurance requirement -- 1960's or 1970's), you could drive uninsured, but had to post a $25,000 bond if you did have a wreck. That was the "penalty" for driving uninsured and having an accident. The state insurance commissioner was responsible for ensuring the bond got posted, but it usually took urging from the injured party to get this done. DMV also suspended your license until the bond was posted. I would see if PA has similar laws/procedures.

---

There was no collision or comprehensive on the car. Even if I had it, IMO, it should be irrelevant, as I was 0% at fault, and the girl was 100% at fault.

PA small claims allows up to $8000 settlements, so thedollar value is OK.

Ive never heard about the need for a bond. The sad part is that the girl gave the insurance card for the car she was driving, though she was not insured when using it. She misrepresented her coverage to the polide; if they knew the actual situation, she mayhave been arrested on the spot.

JMH

 

[Gary Allan]

The best you can hope for in this situation, IMHO, is the total value of your vehicle from the owners insurance company. This shouldn't be a problem. They're responsible financially. You then have the option of buying the car for salvage and completing the repairs under a recon title.


There's nothing more for you to squeeze from this event. If a utility pole fell on it ....that's the most anyone is going to compensate you for its loss. That would be unless you had a rider attached to your policy of it having a higher value than book (classic car type value) and you had paid the appropriate premiums for it.

I understand your desire to get this car returned to you in the shape you had it ..and to somewhat get the girl assigned the punitive expense of her negligence and your "beyond accepted value" out of pocket costs...but I don't see it reasonably happening.

Comprehensive coverage is CHEAP. A stone in the windshield would pay for 2 or 3 years premiums. This probably wouldn't have helped you in this situation ..but suppose it was just a tree falling on it from a hurricane or a flood? You would have the exact same loss ..and no one (probably) to claim against.

Send the claim for the total loss to the owners insurance company, buy back the car for the residual value and get it fixed as a recon.

Look at it this way. Suppose she was insured ..what would any insurance company offer you?? Total loss?

Good luck!

 

[k1xv]

No insurance company, either your own or the other drivers, will ever agree to pay more than the blue book value of the car. Legally, it is considered economic waste to spend more to repair something than what it is supposed to be worth after the repair is complete.

I am no expert on insurance coverage when someone is not a listed driver, but I always thought that the car is always insured for any driver, even if it is being driven by a car thief. The listing of drivers determines the insurance rate paid by the car owner.

Before entering into any law suit, I agree with the recommendation of someone else to have a good discussion with your insurance agent, if you have one.

If you do go to court, of any kind, be sure to have an expert witness regarding the value of your car. Good luck.

 

[JHZR2]

The major issue is that despite numerous tries, our insurance company refuses to understand that despite the car that hit ours had insurance for the owner, the driver was not insured (excluded, which is the stupedest thing the state of PA could allow - how is it in the public interest for this crap to occur?) due to an exclusion. Unfortunately our insurance company doesnt provide a static agent; yoyu get whomever is picking up the phone. Someone is put on our claim, but i dont know that person from anyone else.

As for car value, one reason why I am very wary of dealing with an insurance company, particularly my own, is due to the fact that blue book values, etc. dont represent the valuationsthat these MB turbodiesels command. A blue book value for an 84 300D (83 cars are no longer listed) might be $3000 at 180k in excellent condition. Look at completed sales for these cars, and the real excellent specimens with reasonable mileage (250k and less) can fetch up to $8000!

NJ law states that a car is a classic whenit gets to be 25 years old (its elligible to be given classic status). The blue book (online) doesnt price my 83 except as a 'classic' car. My carwas pristine, almost like it was off the showroom floor. According to the classic blue book valuation $6900 is the value for excellent condition cars. Considering that I spared no expense on the vehicle, have every reciept, every fuel purchase logged, and LOTS of examples of completed sales fetching in excess of $6000, I believe I have a case.

Unfortunately, in NJ, thecar insurance situation is quite poor. We are lucky enough to have a company that is rated quite well (although servicehere leavessomething to be desired), and have multi-million dollar policies at a price that would be quite competitive in other lower priced states. Because of this good deal, I would hate to ruin my relationship with the insurance company, by taking them to court or causing large arguments over my car's valuation.

I did nothing, I and my insurance company do not deserve to pay a penny, andshould be able to recover the true valuation of my vehicle. It is not my fault that the lawmakers of PA are so stupid that they claim it is in the 'public interest' that people can be excluded from insurance policies, still drive and cause this sort of a situation. How is that in anyone's interest? I cant see it, as I now know three folks scrounging to cover losses due to this girls negligence and absolute stupidity.

At this point Ive purchased a brand new saab 9-3, which Im really happy with. I know the damage to the car is $6800, and so my best bet is to find an excellent specimen similar to my car that has no engine or drivetrain. Sometimes they exist, people run out of oil or snap a timing chain. Id like to (on my own dollar) later at some time swap the engine and drivetrain into a real nice specimen. The engine is great, the last time I started it was in early september, and I started it up this past friday, after glowing it only twice, it caught on the first cylinder firing.

Id love nothing more thanfor this girl who caused the pileup to go to jail, loose her license and be ruined for life. This all disgusts me so much, how I should have to go through any of this crap, or be inconvenienced in any way, while she actually got away scott free. I even called the insurance company of the car owner of the car that caused the damage. That guy, despite allowing an excluded driver to use the car, being completely irresponsible, etc. is still allowed to be covered on progressive's policy. Idiots like this should not be elligible for car insurance, they are way too irresponsible to be oprating a vehicle.

JMH

 

[kreigle]

If you haven't already, I would definitely seek out a lawyer with experience in accident cases. Give him/her the information you have on the driver and insured parties and let them deal with the insurance companies.

A lawyer really help you out with the legal options and whether the ins. co. is just avoiding their responsibility

How much you can sue for would be limited by whether you have the limited-tort or full-tort option on your insurance policy.

My brother was rear-ended by a commercial dump-truck several years ago and the trucking company's insurance refused to pay on the claim. He had to go through a lawyer and sue the trucking company's insurance company to get his car fixed.

If you have to, file suit against your own ins. co. if they won't follow up.

 

[k1xv]

quote:

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Originally posted by kreigle:
If you haven't already, I would definitely seek out a lawyer with experience in accident cases. Give him/her the information you have on the driver and insured parties and let them deal with the insurance companies.

A lawyer really help you out with the legal options and whether the ins. co. is just avoiding their responsibility

How much you can sue for would be limited by whether you have the limited-tort or full-tort option on your insurance policy.

My brother was rear-ended by a commercial dump-truck several years ago and the trucking company's insurance refused to pay on the claim. He had to go through a lawyer and sue the trucking company's insurance company to get his car fixed.

If you have to, file suit against your own ins. co. if they won't follow up.

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========
I agree with all of this, except the tort liability stuff. That only applies to personal injuries, not property damages.

If you had no collision insurance, I don't know if your insurance co has any legal responsibility to you on property damage.

In what state did the accident occur?

If you are to get anything, particularly more than blue book value, an expert witness on the valuation of such a car is a must. I share your pain on these old Panzerwagons. I have an old 300SD myself, but nowhere in the shape yours must have been in.

You could swear out a careless driving complaint against the driver, but it will require a significant time commitment, as you will be the complaining witness.

Let me guess. You have NJ Manufacturers Insurance?

 

[JHZR2]

LOL! yes, NJM... It happened in SE PA, home of the 'you can drive and sign the liability away to the car's owner if you like, because its in the public's best interest' state.

JMH

 

[k1xv]

Well, lets take this logically.

If it is really true that in Pennsylvania drivers can buy insurance that only provides coverage if the listed drivers are driving, and that is the law as recognized in Pennsylvania, then you were hit by an uninsured driver.

This would not extinguish your claim against the driver of the car that hit you, or the owner of the car. Insurance only provides coverage to the insured for claims against them, but the lack of insurance does nothing to legally extinguish claims by third parties against vehicle owners/drivers.

And if you were in fact hit by a driver/car owner who was uninsured under PA law in a PA accident, any coverage you have with NJM for property damage coverage when hit by an uninsured vehicle/driver would seem to apply, because, under PA law, the vehicle was in fact uninsured.

BTW, while I do not practice tort/motor vehicles law, I am a member of the NJ Bar, admitted 1976.

 

[JHZR2]

makes sense to me... I wish the insurance company would understand this, which they dont although Ive explained it MANY times

That said, the only way to get satisfaction from the driver/owner is for myself or my insurance company to go after them.

It seems from this thread that my best bet is to keep trying toi settle withmy insurance company, let them go after the guilty parties (driver and owner), and then make up the difference and other costs Ive incurred up via small claims suits. Seems Im better off getting the bulk from my company, as any large judgement against the parties wont really pay out easily.

That said, cant small claims court or the related constable or similar authority garnish their wages or put liens against anything and everything they own?

Thanks!

JMH