Or let someone with experience torque them in. 
)
)
Can't get spark plug washers to crush
- Thread starter y_p_w
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Originally Posted By: yonyon
..if you like simple:
Screw it in until it feels tight and then leave it there.
Has worked for me for over 50 years, before owning a vehicle I was changing spark plugs in a old B&S one lunger from a reel mower, that was about 1960...
..if you like simple:
Screw it in until it feels tight and then leave it there.
Has worked for me for over 50 years, before owning a vehicle I was changing spark plugs in a old B&S one lunger from a reel mower, that was about 1960...
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
and the big worry I have is that they shoot out of the block.
If they're not tight enough, this may eventually happen, with disastrous consequences.
You never did read my first reply, did you? In that reply I told you how to torque properly.
I did try that. In that case I could tell it was bottoming out, and the needle kept on going higher on the dial.
How much rotation past contact happened during that time? 1/4, 1/2, over 1/2?
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
and the big worry I have is that they shoot out of the block.
If they're not tight enough, this may eventually happen, with disastrous consequences.
You never did read my first reply, did you? In that reply I told you how to torque properly.
I did try that. In that case I could tell it was bottoming out, and the needle kept on going higher on the dial.
How much rotation past contact happened during that time? 1/4, 1/2, over 1/2?
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I recently installed some NGK platinum plugs in my wife's Civic, but then realized that the beam torque wrench I used had units in N*m and in-lbs. I was thinking the ft-lbs spec in the owner's manual, but was looking at the N*m gauge. So I took them out and realized they were somewhat loose. I got curious and looked at the plugs, and the washers looked like they did new. When I pulled out the factory-installed plugs, their washers were totally compressed and couldn't get any flatter.
The factory installed plugs may have been torqued to a higher level, and/or their washers may have been of a different material or design.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
So I did it again this morning to about the spec'ed 18 N*m or 13 ft-lbs. I pulled them out again and the washers still looked uncompressed. Does the washer really need to be squished or is can there be enough tension if it's properly torqued?
The goal isn't to compress the washer, it's to provide the proper seal and heat transfer. The manufacturers torque spec is designed to achieve both goals without damaging the plugs or head.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Am I doing something wrong? I was also thinking that I wasn't using the beam torque wrench correctly. I guess you're supposed to balance the handle so that force is only applied at the pivot point at the end of the beam. Still - I kept on trying and couldn't get to the point where I could get the washer to compress. I was even tightening it beyond a point where I wasn't comfortable beyond that point. I really didn't want to strip the threads. I'm thinking of just finding my clicker type torque wrench, which should be a lot easier to figure out.
If you aren't comfortable with your torque wrench have someone experienced show you how to use it properly. The wrong approach is to tighten beyond factory specs because you think you need to have the compression washer look a certain way. That's the quick way to strip threads, which will require the type of repair you don't really want to get involved with.
Most people who haven't much experience with torque wrenches are quite surprised at how little torque is really required to properly tighten fasteners and spark plugs. Fasteners are seldom under tightened and are frequently over tightened.
I recently installed some NGK platinum plugs in my wife's Civic, but then realized that the beam torque wrench I used had units in N*m and in-lbs. I was thinking the ft-lbs spec in the owner's manual, but was looking at the N*m gauge. So I took them out and realized they were somewhat loose. I got curious and looked at the plugs, and the washers looked like they did new. When I pulled out the factory-installed plugs, their washers were totally compressed and couldn't get any flatter.
The factory installed plugs may have been torqued to a higher level, and/or their washers may have been of a different material or design.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
So I did it again this morning to about the spec'ed 18 N*m or 13 ft-lbs. I pulled them out again and the washers still looked uncompressed. Does the washer really need to be squished or is can there be enough tension if it's properly torqued?
The goal isn't to compress the washer, it's to provide the proper seal and heat transfer. The manufacturers torque spec is designed to achieve both goals without damaging the plugs or head.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Am I doing something wrong? I was also thinking that I wasn't using the beam torque wrench correctly. I guess you're supposed to balance the handle so that force is only applied at the pivot point at the end of the beam. Still - I kept on trying and couldn't get to the point where I could get the washer to compress. I was even tightening it beyond a point where I wasn't comfortable beyond that point. I really didn't want to strip the threads. I'm thinking of just finding my clicker type torque wrench, which should be a lot easier to figure out.
If you aren't comfortable with your torque wrench have someone experienced show you how to use it properly. The wrong approach is to tighten beyond factory specs because you think you need to have the compression washer look a certain way. That's the quick way to strip threads, which will require the type of repair you don't really want to get involved with.
Most people who haven't much experience with torque wrenches are quite surprised at how little torque is really required to properly tighten fasteners and spark plugs. Fasteners are seldom under tightened and are frequently over tightened.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
and the big worry I have is that they shoot out of the block.
If they're not tight enough, this may eventually happen, with disastrous consequences.
You never did read my first reply, did you? In that reply I told you how to torque properly.
I did try that. In that case I could tell it was bottoming out, and the needle kept on going higher on the dial.
How much rotation past contact happened during that time? 1/4, 1/2, over 1/2?
About a quarter turn. I could feel resistance, and after another quarter turn or so I could tell it wasn't going any further.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
and the big worry I have is that they shoot out of the block.
If they're not tight enough, this may eventually happen, with disastrous consequences.
You never did read my first reply, did you? In that reply I told you how to torque properly.
I did try that. In that case I could tell it was bottoming out, and the needle kept on going higher on the dial.
How much rotation past contact happened during that time? 1/4, 1/2, over 1/2?
About a quarter turn. I could feel resistance, and after another quarter turn or so I could tell it wasn't going any further.
Originally Posted By: Le_bow_ski
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I recently installed some NGK platinum plugs in my wife's Civic, but then realized that the beam torque wrench I used had units in N*m and in-lbs. I was thinking the ft-lbs spec in the owner's manual, but was looking at the N*m gauge. So I took them out and realized they were somewhat loose. I got curious and looked at the plugs, and the washers looked like they did new. When I pulled out the factory-installed plugs, their washers were totally compressed and couldn't get any flatter.
The factory installed plugs may have been torqued to a higher level, and/or their washers may have been of a different material or design.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
So I did it again this morning to about the spec'ed 18 N*m or 13 ft-lbs. I pulled them out again and the washers still looked uncompressed. Does the washer really need to be squished or is can there be enough tension if it's properly torqued?
The goal isn't to compress the washer, it's to provide the proper seal and heat transfer. The manufacturers torque spec is designed to achieve both goals without damaging the plugs or head.
My big worry is that if only a portion of the washer is in contact with the seating surface, it's not going to transfer heat from the plug to the head.
Also - I noted the plugs. They were NGK PZFR6F-11 bought as a 4-pack at Pep Boys. They were marked as made in Japan. The factory-installed plugs were the identical model number, but marked as assembled in the US of Japanese parts. If anything, I was thinking perhaps manufacturing variations. I've installed plugs before, and in my experience the washers flatten pretty easily with only moderate effort.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I recently installed some NGK platinum plugs in my wife's Civic, but then realized that the beam torque wrench I used had units in N*m and in-lbs. I was thinking the ft-lbs spec in the owner's manual, but was looking at the N*m gauge. So I took them out and realized they were somewhat loose. I got curious and looked at the plugs, and the washers looked like they did new. When I pulled out the factory-installed plugs, their washers were totally compressed and couldn't get any flatter.
The factory installed plugs may have been torqued to a higher level, and/or their washers may have been of a different material or design.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
So I did it again this morning to about the spec'ed 18 N*m or 13 ft-lbs. I pulled them out again and the washers still looked uncompressed. Does the washer really need to be squished or is can there be enough tension if it's properly torqued?
The goal isn't to compress the washer, it's to provide the proper seal and heat transfer. The manufacturers torque spec is designed to achieve both goals without damaging the plugs or head.
My big worry is that if only a portion of the washer is in contact with the seating surface, it's not going to transfer heat from the plug to the head.
Also - I noted the plugs. They were NGK PZFR6F-11 bought as a 4-pack at Pep Boys. They were marked as made in Japan. The factory-installed plugs were the identical model number, but marked as assembled in the US of Japanese parts. If anything, I was thinking perhaps manufacturing variations. I've installed plugs before, and in my experience the washers flatten pretty easily with only moderate effort.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
About a quarter turn. I could feel resistance, and after another quarter turn or so I could tell it wasn't going any further.
Then leave it alone, you torqued it properly.
About a quarter turn. I could feel resistance, and after another quarter turn or so I could tell it wasn't going any further.
Then leave it alone, you torqued it properly.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Le_bow_ski
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I recently installed some NGK platinum plugs in my wife's Civic, but then realized that the beam torque wrench I used had units in N*m and in-lbs. I was thinking the ft-lbs spec in the owner's manual, but was looking at the N*m gauge. So I took them out and realized they were somewhat loose. I got curious and looked at the plugs, and the washers looked like they did new. When I pulled out the factory-installed plugs, their washers were totally compressed and couldn't get any flatter.
The factory installed plugs may have been torqued to a higher level, and/or their washers may have been of a different material or design.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
So I did it again this morning to about the spec'ed 18 N*m or 13 ft-lbs. I pulled them out again and the washers still looked uncompressed. Does the washer really need to be squished or is can there be enough tension if it's properly torqued?
The goal isn't to compress the washer, it's to provide the proper seal and heat transfer. The manufacturers torque spec is designed to achieve both goals without damaging the plugs or head.
My big worry is that if only a portion of the washer is in contact with the seating surface, it's not going to transfer heat from the plug to the head.
Also - I noted the plugs. They were NGK PZFR6F-11 bought as a 4-pack at Pep Boys. They were marked as made in Japan. The factory-installed plugs were the identical model number, but marked as assembled in the US of Japanese parts. If anything, I was thinking perhaps manufacturing variations. I've installed plugs before, and in my experience the washers flatten pretty easily with only moderate effort.
You're over thinking things on both counts, and you're very likely wrong on both counts (I'm being generous here). Given the way things are going the most likely outcome of your efforts to flatten the washer will be damaged or destroyed spark plug threads.
Stop what you're doing, follow the manufacturers recommendations for torque explicitly, and move on to something that really needs fixing.
Originally Posted By: Le_bow_ski
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I recently installed some NGK platinum plugs in my wife's Civic, but then realized that the beam torque wrench I used had units in N*m and in-lbs. I was thinking the ft-lbs spec in the owner's manual, but was looking at the N*m gauge. So I took them out and realized they were somewhat loose. I got curious and looked at the plugs, and the washers looked like they did new. When I pulled out the factory-installed plugs, their washers were totally compressed and couldn't get any flatter.
The factory installed plugs may have been torqued to a higher level, and/or their washers may have been of a different material or design.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
So I did it again this morning to about the spec'ed 18 N*m or 13 ft-lbs. I pulled them out again and the washers still looked uncompressed. Does the washer really need to be squished or is can there be enough tension if it's properly torqued?
The goal isn't to compress the washer, it's to provide the proper seal and heat transfer. The manufacturers torque spec is designed to achieve both goals without damaging the plugs or head.
My big worry is that if only a portion of the washer is in contact with the seating surface, it's not going to transfer heat from the plug to the head.
Also - I noted the plugs. They were NGK PZFR6F-11 bought as a 4-pack at Pep Boys. They were marked as made in Japan. The factory-installed plugs were the identical model number, but marked as assembled in the US of Japanese parts. If anything, I was thinking perhaps manufacturing variations. I've installed plugs before, and in my experience the washers flatten pretty easily with only moderate effort.
You're over thinking things on both counts, and you're very likely wrong on both counts (I'm being generous here). Given the way things are going the most likely outcome of your efforts to flatten the washer will be damaged or destroyed spark plug threads.
Stop what you're doing, follow the manufacturers recommendations for torque explicitly, and move on to something that really needs fixing.
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