Originally Posted By: wayne50
Pinging on a 93 Taurus was also caused by carbon buildup under the EGR and the intake.
I pulled the intake plenum off last night to see what things looked like under there. The plenum itself was very clean, and there was only a touch of soft carbon in the intake port itself. So I suppose that takes build up out the equation?
Originally Posted By: flanso
Putting those additives in the tank probably reduces the volatility of the fuel, sort of like increasing octane. If that slight decrease in fuel volatility resolves the pinging problem, perhaps the fuels you are buying are not really up to the standards indicated.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Try a few tanks WITHOUT any MMO. Heavier hydrocarbons like motor oil or even light oil in gasoline tends to lower the effective octane rating, which is one reason why oil-burning engines ping much worse than those that burn no oil. It may be that the MMO is triggering detonation. I agree its not LIKELY in such diluted concentrations, but its something to try.
Also people have the wrong idea about ethanol- it RAISES octane significantly, which is why flex-fuel vehicles tend to make more power on E85 than on E10- on E85 the PCM can advance the timing all the way to the limit without detonation. The downside is that MPG goes in the toilet, and frankly I don't believe corn-produced E85 is an environmental winner... but it sure runs great in engines set up for it!
I would not be surprised if the fuel I'm using is not up to par. I'm going to be running a few tanks without MMO just to check things out. It'll loose that extra kick it gets, but that's a lot better than a pinging engine.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Check the DPFE sensor!
This is going to sound crazy, but the 6 years I drove my 01 Taurus it pinged like CRAZY all the time. We spent probably over $1000 trying to get it to stop pinging. Running premium fuel, had the FI system professionally cleaned, tried lower temp thermostat, verified that the car wasn't overheating, reflashed the computer a number of times.
Finally one day it threw a CEL, I replaced the DPFE and it was fine after that. Makes no sense that it was "bad" for 6 years ... just good enough to never throw a code.
Towards the "end" of the DPFE sensor, the car was misfiring a lot at part throttle cruise. I suspect it was "sticky" and causing the car to run real lean all the time.
Thanks for the info. In an effort to save some time, I replaced the DPFE with what looks like an updated one last night (it was wider than the one on the vehicle). Boy was that a task when the old DPFE snapped in the tubes. Unfortunately, there was no difference after the DPFE was replaced.
Originally Posted By: TFB1
You stated your engine does not use oxygen sensors, so how does the PCM determine A/F ratio???
Myself, I'd forget that additives(I never use them), swap to a 180* thermostat, use whatever grade fuel that mostly stops the pinging, & be happy...
I have no idea how the PCM determines A/F ratios I'm afraid. I wish I knew what Ford did to compensate for the lack of oxygen sensors and catalytic converters.
Having said that, I've tried a 180 F thermostat when I first got the car. It took ages to warm up, and I had problems with fuel dilution. So I went back to the 192 F thermostat the PCM is programmed for.
Originally Posted By: 95busa
I can say this- my '00 P71 pinged at WOT, especially at high RPM close to shifting. I dropped a 180 stat in it and it still pinged. Couldnt run high octane gas on it (govt wont buy it), but it pinged the whole abused, hot climate, multiple pursuit time I had it (i think two years) and she never missed a lick.
I think the '99s had a problem with aggressive programming, and '00 was a bit of an odd year as far as programming is concerned when they tuned it down. Still, it's good to hear it was able to handle the abuse! Makes me a feel a bit better than the engine won't blow up.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
When you say "factory catalytic converter delete, no oxygen sensors", assume you mean removed? Most upstream o2 sensors serve dual role. 1) Monitor exhaust gasses which the ECU uses to set Air/Fuel mix. 2) initial reading of exhaust gasses for catalyst efficiency. Wonder if your pinging because your ecu has the fuel trim set wrong because it does not have upstream o2 sensor?
It is a GCC spec(Middle East) vehicle, sensors & converters are factory delete... How it operates I don't have a clue, no doubt has special PCM programming...
Lesson learned, check location.
My apologies, I should have clearly stated it was an export model.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Wait a minute... Isn't this the car with 150+ deg F intake temperature?
Fix that and the problem is gone.
That's the one! The ambient temperature was around 103 F this morning, and on the open road the IAT sensor read 107 F. At a stop light, it climbed up to 132 F but that was about it. I then took the IAT sensor out, covered the hole with aluminum duct tape and placed the sensor on the side of the airbox. The reading went up to 147 F, although it fluctuated between 138-155 while driving. When I came to a complete stop, it went up to 157 F. That was the highest it got.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
When I did the intake manifold on my mom's 2000 GM I took the upper plenum all apart and used about 2 cans of brake clean on that puppy. Made it look brand new, now I also had 8 new plugs and 8 new coils, but it ran a lot better after cleaning that thing. You can pull it off while leaving the EGR valve attached BTW. Just take everything off and undo the bolts and it pops off.
I'm going to be replacing my plugs soon, and coils. I'm not sure if I will go with the Motorcraft branded Chinese Visteons, the Hungarian Visteons or Taiwanese Steeda coils.
Originally Posted By: JamesBond
I have a '00 Town Car with about 70k miles and it pings a lot also and drives me nuts. It usually happens when the car is on the highway and has been running for at least 20 minutes. When I give it some throttle to maintain speed up a gentle slope or speed up from from between 65-80 mph without downshifting it will ping like crazy. Around town or on short trips I never notice it pinging, and it does not ping at high revs.
I have determined that
the engine HATES lucas and mmo. Regane and techron showed no real change good or bad. I currently use regular 87 with nothing extra added to the fuel and have less pinging but not zero.
I have cleaned the MAF with CRC MAF cleaner without taking it out of the housing. Tried seafoam and water through the intake. Plugs are factory as far as I know. Never touched the EGR. Haven't found any vacuum leaks.
The engine does appear to have an extra "kick" so to speak with MMO, but I'll just refuel with regular 87 at the next fill up and see if that changes anything. I might move onto using Liqui-Moly's Valve Cleaner at every fill up (as recommended) instead of the MMO.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Falcon_LS,
I'm thinking one or more of your engine control sensors is operating out of range causing your spark timing to be too far advanced at the time the engine is pinging. The only way to see what the sensors are reporting to the PCM is to hook up a scanner to the diagnostic port and start reading what the sensors are reporting. If your water temp sensor or MAP sensor is out of range, that could affect you spark timing.
I have a ScanGauge-II, which I can use to monitor various sensors, if that helps. The water temperature sensor tends to be 2 degrees cooler than cylinder head temperature, but lately, it's gone up to 3 degrees all of a sudden. Maybe it's becoming a bit "lazy"?
