Can you run 100% water in a radiator?
- Thread starter wowthisexists
- Start date
- Status
In an emergency
Originally Posted by benjy
there is also Evans a waterless coolant said to be better, but its $$$$ + ALL water must be removed from the system. stuff has been around a while + changes made to it.
It is not better, look at the graphs I posted. It has lower heat transfer, lower specific heat and a higher freezing point. The only thing it gets you is a higher boiling point which is above where the engine should be operating anyway. No engine should be operating at those temperatures unless the cooling system is deliberately undersized for applications such as racing. Otherwise there is no upside at all, only downsides. There's no reason to cripple your cooling system in that way.
there is also Evans a waterless coolant said to be better, but its $$$$ + ALL water must be removed from the system. stuff has been around a while + changes made to it.
It is not better, look at the graphs I posted. It has lower heat transfer, lower specific heat and a higher freezing point. The only thing it gets you is a higher boiling point which is above where the engine should be operating anyway. No engine should be operating at those temperatures unless the cooling system is deliberately undersized for applications such as racing. Otherwise there is no upside at all, only downsides. There's no reason to cripple your cooling system in that way.
Originally Posted by 40Deluxe
If you do you need to use a product like redline water wetter, as a corrosion inhibitor. Your boiling point will improve with the water wetter and straight water, it is done with street rods all the time in warm weather, that are have overheating problems.
And are drained before winter in cold climates.
If you do you need to use a product like redline water wetter, as a corrosion inhibitor. Your boiling point will improve with the water wetter and straight water, it is done with street rods all the time in warm weather, that are have overheating problems.
And are drained before winter in cold climates.
Surface tension is the enemy of good cooling. Even under pressure, surface tension can allow steam pockets to form at high temperature points in the cylinder head. Steam creates intense pressure that basically blasts coolant away so you've got an area that is prone to high temp that isn't contacting the coolant, resulting in no heat transfer other than radiation through the head structure. This is what kills many aluminum heads. Coolants and cooling system additives employ surfactants that greatly reduce the coolants surface tension. Detergent is a surfactant. I've heard about people adding detergent to plain water and claiming good results but I've seen no evidence to support this claim. It still leaves freezing as an issue and it's unclear if or how much it would impact heat transfer over pure water. Water transfers heat more efficiently than coolant hence it's use by racers, adding anything will decrease heat transfer. Corrosion inhibitors are important especially in engines with iron blocks and aluminum heads. There are abundant examples of aluminum parts eaten away by corrosion and a neat side effect of this is the creation on enhanced conductivity that can create conductive pathways allowing current to flow within the coolant system. This can worsen the effects of electrolysis and cause havoc with sensors. Coolant lubricity pertains only to the pump seal and water is sufficient for this purpose.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by benjy
there is also Evans a waterless coolant said to be better, but its $$$$ + ALL water must be removed from the system. stuff has been around a while + changes made to it.
It is not better, look at the graphs I posted. It has lower heat transfer, lower specific heat and a higher freezing point. The only thing it gets you is a higher boiling point which is above where the engine should be operating anyway. No engine should be operating at those temperatures unless the cooling system is deliberately undersized for applications such as racing. Otherwise there is no upside at all, only downsides.
I thought Evan's had low expansion as it heated up? which was nicer (easier) on old radiators and the such. Less pressure, less likely to break some old hard to replace/repair item. Quick look says it doesn't develop "vapor pressure".
https://motocrossactionmag.com/ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-waterless-coolant/
But for most vehicles today, not sure it is really necessary.
Originally Posted by benjy
there is also Evans a waterless coolant said to be better, but its $$$$ + ALL water must be removed from the system. stuff has been around a while + changes made to it.
It is not better, look at the graphs I posted. It has lower heat transfer, lower specific heat and a higher freezing point. The only thing it gets you is a higher boiling point which is above where the engine should be operating anyway. No engine should be operating at those temperatures unless the cooling system is deliberately undersized for applications such as racing. Otherwise there is no upside at all, only downsides.
I thought Evan's had low expansion as it heated up? which was nicer (easier) on old radiators and the such. Less pressure, less likely to break some old hard to replace/repair item. Quick look says it doesn't develop "vapor pressure".
https://motocrossactionmag.com/ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-waterless-coolant/
But for most vehicles today, not sure it is really necessary.
They ran straight water at Three Mile Island back in '79. No big whoop.
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
They ran straight water at Three Mile Island back in '79. No big whoop.
Yes all boiler feedwater is "straight", what does that have to do with anything? This is an automobile cooling system not a boiler. The two are not comparable.
They ran straight water at Three Mile Island back in '79. No big whoop.
Yes all boiler feedwater is "straight", what does that have to do with anything? This is an automobile cooling system not a boiler. The two are not comparable.
In a pinch I've used it when a radiator hose came loose and I only had water available to refill with. I think the chemical cooling system flushes require straight water to work effectively. Short term, yes, you can use it. Long term, no, because no freeze protection, no corrosion inhibitors, and no boil over protection.
I've drained out a gallon and ran bottled water for an hour to get all the junk out.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Sayjac
Though no personal knowledge I've seen it mentioned as a "racing thing". In everyday passenger vehicle use for corrosion protection, freezing point depression and boiling point elevation provided by AF as noted in the graphs, can't see any practical application to water only.
The only reason that is done is to maximize heat transfer and the specific heat capacity, but for a properly designed system that's not an issue. It should never be done for a typical automobile application.
![[Linked Image from bkeracing.com]](http://bkeracing.com/Content/Images/uploaded/cp.gif "[Linked Image from bkeracing.com]")
The reason it is required in racing has nothing to do with cooling . It is because coolant is extremely slippery if spilled on the track, much worse than oil. And unlike oil, is very hard to see.
Originally Posted by Sayjac
Though no personal knowledge I've seen it mentioned as a "racing thing". In everyday passenger vehicle use for corrosion protection, freezing point depression and boiling point elevation provided by AF as noted in the graphs, can't see any practical application to water only.
The only reason that is done is to maximize heat transfer and the specific heat capacity, but for a properly designed system that's not an issue. It should never be done for a typical automobile application.
The reason it is required in racing has nothing to do with cooling . It is because coolant is extremely slippery if spilled on the track, much worse than oil. And unlike oil, is very hard to see.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by mightymousetech
The reason it is required in racing has nothing to do with cooling . It is because coolant is extremely slippery if spilled on the track, much worse than oil. And unlike oil, is very hard to see.
Yes, that's why track owners do not want a glycol.
The reason it is required in racing has nothing to do with cooling . It is because coolant is extremely slippery if spilled on the track, much worse than oil. And unlike oil, is very hard to see.
Yes, that's why track owners do not want a glycol.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
They ran straight water at Three Mile Island back in '79. No big whoop.
Yes all boiler feedwater is "straight", what does that have to do with anything? This is an automobile cooling system not a boiler. The two are not comparable.
Chernobyl?
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
They ran straight water at Three Mile Island back in '79. No big whoop.
Yes all boiler feedwater is "straight", what does that have to do with anything? This is an automobile cooling system not a boiler. The two are not comparable.
Chernobyl?
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
They ran straight water at Three Mile Island back in '79. No big whoop.
Yes all boiler feedwater is "straight", what does that have to do with anything? This is an automobile cooling system not a boiler. The two are not comparable.
Chernobyl?
Lol what?
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
They ran straight water at Three Mile Island back in '79. No big whoop.
Yes all boiler feedwater is "straight", what does that have to do with anything? This is an automobile cooling system not a boiler. The two are not comparable.
Chernobyl?
Lol what?
When I was living in the tropics, I exclusively use water for my toyota 4AFE engine. Acquired the car at 78k km on the odo and the previous owner replaced the radiator with a brass top one. So I decided to check on the thermostat as most radiator shops there always removed the thermostat when fixing the radiator. And lo and behold, when I drained the radiator to work and open the thermostat housing, it just pure water and no coolant/antifreeze. And there was no thermostat in there. Put in new oem thermostat, changed the radiator to a new aftermarket replacement plastic top and bottom. But run out of budget and just decided to pour in tap water straight from a garden hose. No cooling/overheat problem until the car reached 170k km when finally the original waterpump gave up. But I didn't overheat (luckily). Note, I changed the timing belt at 90k km without changing the original waterpump. So in my own conclusion, is coolant/antifreeze can prolong the service life of waterpump? Maybe. Is pure water bad for the cooling system? Yeah if your living in colder climates. But in the tropics, I dont think so.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
