Can you cause any damage with those ground wire kits

[Shannow]

quote:

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Originally posted by labman:
Multiple paths to ground can lead to ground loop currents creating noise in a circuit. With the complex electronics of modern engines, I would go for one good ground.

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labman,
a single, decent ground is good advice.

Multiple grounds can allow circulating currents.

A decade ago, my management learned this the hard way.

Steam turbines have a single good ground near the generator, to stop stry currents chewing bearings.

We had the State Premier attending the opening of the power station, and they decided the turbine needed a repaint. Which they did, with an epoxy system, and an electrostatic spray unit.

3 months later, they couldn't control the unit.

Turned out, they had decreased the effectiveness of the intentional ground, by coating the brushes in Epoxy.

While this ground still worked, the governor became the second best, and they spark eroded the worm-wheel, to the point that control was lost.

$1M later (for the governor) and $150 for the new shaft earth Brushes, we were back in business.

 

[labman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shannow:

quote:

---

Originally posted by labman:
Multiple paths to ground can lead to ground loop currents creating noise in a circuit. With the complex electronics of modern engines, I would go for one good ground.

---

labman,
a single, decent ground is good advice.

Multiple grounds can allow circulating currents.

A decade ago, my management learned this the hard way.

Steam turbines have a single good ground near the generator, to stop stry currents chewing bearings.

We had the State Premier attending the opening of the power station, and they decided the turbine needed a repaint. Which they did, with an epoxy system, and an electrostatic spray unit.

3 months later, they couldn't control the unit.

Turned out, they had decreased the effectiveness of the intentional ground, by coating the brushes in Epoxy.

While this ground still worked, the governor became the second best, and they spark eroded the worm-wheel, to the point that control was lost.

$1M later (for the governor) and $150 for the new shaft earth Brushes, we were back in business.

---

Oops!

 

[JohnBrowning]

While it is important to have good grounds on modern fuel injected engines I doubt you need to add any. If you have a bad ground repair it. Poor grounds were found on very early domestic vechiles when they first started to use fuel injection. I have seen bad or missing grounds cause huge problems on imports. I have never seen 20 ground wires do anything that three well placed oem ones could not do. It sounds like wallet lightner to me!

 

[crossbow]

John,

Aye...but you have to remember most people adding grounding kits aren't running stock cars. Stock grounds may work for a stock car, but the second you start taxing the electrical system, or greatly changing the car's dynamics, those stock grounds may be no longer sufficent to deal with the vehicles electrical demands.

 

[T-Keith]

On the same topic. Where can I find or how can I make replacement cables?

I'm seeing big voltage swings and my wires are 17 years old. All I've found is cheap universal cables at the auto parts store, none will work with my car's setup.

-T

 

[brianl703]

Check out:

http://www.delcity.net

They can make custom cables for you, in any wire gauge you want, with any terminals on the end that you want. Their prices are pretty good too.

They also sell the tools and parts to make your own cables if you want to do it that way..

 

[T-Keith]

Thanks for the link, but they don't seem to have anything either. All I see are a bunch of short one wire top terminal cables. My car has a side terminal battery with split cables.

-T

 

[labman]

I doubt you really need more than the standard 4 gauge which is good for over 100 amps continuous. The critical part is the terminals. Tinned copper and brass makes better connections than bare copper, or a least after 17 years. Soldered is better than crimped. Check NAPA and other professional jobbers in your area and see if any of them have cables with the terminals soldered on. If so, they should have something that will work.

My truck has run the best it has in over 25 years since I soldered the riveted joints in the fuse box last winter. Corrosion creeps into the best crimped joints eventually. My LUV didn't start out with the best, and I have fought flaky electricals ever since 1977.

Oh, and if you don't find soldered, buy good tinned crimped and add your own solder. It will take a heavy duty gun or maybe even a torch.

 

[labman]

Considering the short, heavy cable that typically goes from the battery to the body and engine, I find it unlikely that any accessories would over load the cable itself. Monster stereos may need more than the mounting bolts to painted metal to ground them, but once really grounded to the body, I don't see needing more in the way of a ground. Look at the hot wire to the starter. No combination of continuos loads is going to draw more than the starter. If the battery is grounded directly to the engine block, you might need to upgrade the engine to body ground, but still, one fat cable.

 

[fixitfox33]

I agree about the solder...it really makes a difference in all connections where possible.
If you want to talk with someone about wire, load carrying capacity, connections, etc, go to a stereo shop where they install and work on the vehicles with the huge amps and sound systems.
They use some huge wire, big fuse holders, and GOLD plated connections.
Granted...some of that is for show, but some of it is because your long runs on small wire just don't carry the power to properly operate the systems, and through experience they have found what it takes to work.
I will never forget the beautiful Firebird about four houses down the street that cremated the dash and interior because some wires just got too hot when the sound system was cranked up one morning. I put out the fire, and saw the wires they had used to connect it. Loose connections and small wires generate heat.
And every bit of power that is drawn from the battery on a big red pretty power cable, must return to the battery through a ground that is equally capable of carrying the load, weather it be an equally sized wire to the battery,(best choice), or through frame, fender, firewall, and sheetmetal joints.
Just because those fenders are bolted on and will light a test light, doesn't mean they can carry huge electrical loads. Those sheetmetal parts, for the most part, were painted and primed before assembly, and a lot of the current flow is just going through the screw thread contact.

I have installed hundreds of 100 watt two way radios, and ground integrity is a major concern. ALL my connections are scraped clean to bare metal before connecting.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Fix

 

[kenw]

quote:

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Originally posted by fixitfox33:
I have installed hundreds of 100 watt two way radios, and ground integrity is a major concern. ALL my connections are scraped clean to bare metal before connecting.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Fix

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Excellent point. Do not depend on screw threads to carry current for very long.

I hope you applied a tooth washer BETWEEN the lug and the bare sheetmetal? It's a point most miss.

Also, I commonly see "professionally installed" audio hookups with gold plated RCA cables hooked to tin plated jacks on deck outputs. In which case the gold is a total waste of money. Had a tad bit of an argument with the "pro" installer at a local shop about this little detail.

Remember: "Professional" just means they do it for a living. Most pros are worth what they get paid, but I've seen a few....

[ November 24, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: kenw ]

 

[fixitfox33]

Yeppers...I always use those washers supplied by Motorola...They knew what they were doing when they sent them.
Normally I run the wire they supply back to where the battery ground cable connects to the block.
And that point you mention about the wasted gold is kinda like taking a 12Ga wire supplied with an accessory, and connecting it to a 14, or heaven forbid, a 16, just because the test light showed battery voltage. Seen it many times when troubleshooting why something wasn't working right.

Fix