Can the hold up on research stop now?

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Originally Posted By: Pablo
I think the point is: our press can be depended upon to get it wrong. If you want to learn anything about either side or better yet a well rounded view of science or "whatever", don't bloody expect a (lazy/biased) reporter to do it for you.

Good call.
 
I cannot tell you how many people are having their hopes raised today due to the lifting of the ban of federal money for embryonic stem cell research.

The NY Times had articles more than a year ago stating that research on one's own adult stem cells had progressed to the point where embryos would not be needed.

Underreported due to the political sway.
 
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
mori, I just wonder if there are enough embryos in existence to do all the research in this area that the scientists would like?


I was merely addressing very potentially false news that have not been widely publicized. Nothing more, nothing less. I have no interest in or intention of discussing or debating the ethical dilemma of stem cell research on BITOG.
 
Taxes, politics and religion will never get us anywhere. Heck we can't even agree on oil!
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Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Looks like embryos aren't really crucial to stem cell research.

At least that what is says here.

The same claim has been made repeatedly in the past. For example in 2005:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0823_050823_stemcells.html

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Underreported due to the political sway.

I can think of a more plausible reason.




Click on that link and search for all articles including "stem cells". There are MANY (much more recent) articles which refute the very claim you seem to be trying to make. Stem cells derived from skin cells, from teeth, etc. The scientific advances in stem cell research are quickly making any ethical questions moot.
 
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Looks like embryos aren't really crucial to stem cell research.

At least that what is says here.

The same claim has been made repeatedly in the past. For example in 2005:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0823_050823_stemcells.html

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Underreported due to the political sway.

I can think of a more plausible reason.




Click on that link and search for all articles including "stem cells". There are MANY (much more recent) articles which refute the very claim you seem to be trying to make. Stem cells derived from skin cells, from teeth, etc. The scientific advances in stem cell research are quickly making any ethical questions moot.


Next, you'll probably surmise that I hope the ethical issues won't be solved.
 
Originally Posted By: jmac
Does anyone here read Newsmax?
Interesting info from Mike Reagan here

Embryonic Stem Cells Kill


Smells like propaganda.

No links to a reliable source in the article and tumors were not given as a reason when the ban was made.

Do you have a source with any credibility?
 
Here are three links that I could find in WebMD, this is new to me so only sources I have found quickly;
http://www.webmd.com/news/20080410/new-debate-on-human-test-of-stem-cells
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20070420/stem-cells-may-be-at-root-of-cancer
http://www.webmd.com/news/20061107/stem-cell-date-drives-alternatives

From one of the links-
"Research in animals has already shown that high doses of stem cells are ideal for guaranteeing enough cells will survive, reproduce, and grow into new tissue once they're in the body. The cells also grow much more readily if they are implanted at a very early stage, before they differentiate.

But many studies also show that higher doses of more primitive cells are the very ones likely to produce tumors."
 
Just a few thoughts from an English instructor who has an amateur's interest in science:

Federal and private research dollars often work in different ways. Federal research grants to scientists working for universities often enable basic research--that is, research done to advance knowledge and answer questions, without any intention to produce something immediately practical or profitable. If you asked people doing basic research, "So what's this stuff going to be good for?" they might not have an answer. They might not even be thinking in such terms. But basic research provides the basic knowledge that enables applied research, and sometimes basic research makes accidental discoveries that prove important. Even basic research that fails--in the sense of falsifying the researcher's hypothesis--has considerable value, if only to tell scientists which lines of thought they should no longer pursue.

Private research money generally is focused on application, on turning basic knowledge into something practical and profitable. That's only rational; private capital seeks a return on investment. But the search for applications is not the same as the search for basic knowledge. And without the latter, the former cannot happen.

So making some federal money available for embryonic stem-cell research seems to me a big deal.

The news media dumb down nearly every issue in an effort to reduce a complicated story to a 20-second TV segment or a few column-inches of type, and the media have certainly succeeded in dumbing down the stem-cell issue. The media have led many people to expect embryonic stem-cell research to provide all sorts of cures over the next few years. Quick outcomes aren't likely, but they're also not the point, or at least not the whole point of research on embryonic stem cells. Learning how embryonic stem cells work will add to scientists' basic knowledge of DNA and development.

As to embryonic stem cells being unnecessary to medical research and medical applications, well, such a claim assumes that we know the results of a huge amount of research that hasn't yet been done. We don't know where research into any kind of stem cells--embryonic, adult, placental, umbilical cord, whatever--will lead. Welcome to science.

The ethical issues are complicated, and I have no interest in discussing them here. But if a clump of undifferentiated cells in a glass container in a laboratory is a person, then all such clumps of cells implanted by fertility clinics are persons. Since many such implantations fail (the case of the Octomom notwithstanding), and therefore result in the death of persons, do we then need to charge people who work in fertility clinics with negligent homicide? And is the mother who has a child by in-vitro fertilization somehow complicit in negligent homicide or worse crimes in the cases of implantations that failed? It gets strange and complex in a hurry, doesn't it? Simplistic views on stem cells are probably too simple.

And as to trusting science and looking to science for answers, I merely point out that science is the only method we have for understanding the physical universe, our only way of thinking that lets us make testable predictions about matter and energy, and our only tool for dealing with the unpleasant and dangerous aspects of nature. Does science provide answers to every kind of question? Of course not. But it doesn't try to.
 
"The ethical issues are complicated, and I have no interest in discussing them here. But if a clump of undifferentiated cells in a glass container in a laboratory is a person, then all such clumps of cells implanted by fertility clinics are persons."

Even above and beyond trying to decide if commonly used methods of birth control are 'murder', see below, we would need to acknowledge that in a court of law one could be held negligent for a homicide if one doesn't try to prevent a death from happening. This happened recently in Oregon when some people resorted to praying for their sick child instead of taking the child to a hospital, and the child died. Applying the same to an egg that has the portential to become a child, if one does not fertilize it then surely one has let the child die.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortifacient

The following birth control methods have been proposed to sometimes prevent implantation of a blastocyst, although (except as noted) they primarily work by preventing fertilization:

Hormonal contraceptives[7]

Some herbal contraceptives may work primarily by preventing implantation.[8]

Intrauterine device (IUD)[9]

Although not substances, and therefore not technically abortifacients, the following techniques have also been proposed to sometimes prevent implantation of a blastocyst:

Fertility awareness methods — a philosophy professor has speculated that intercourse during the less-fertile times of the cycle might create embryos incapable of implanting (due to aged gametes at the time of fertilization).[10]

The lactational amenorrhea method may cause a luteal phase defect (LPD). LPD may interfere with the implantation of embryos.[11]

In vitro fertilisation[citation needed]
 
Reginald,
Hi, thank you. That was one of the best and most eloquent responses I have seen on a forum in quite a while. Just the kind of thing I was looking for.
 
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
Applying the same to an egg that has the portential to become a child, if one does not fertilize it then surely one has let the child die.

You're right. Surely we can't distinguish between a "potential" life and an actual life.

That reminds me, I once told a girl I wanted her to have a child with me and she refused. Guess she killed our potential baby. What a cold soul. I guess I should call the police on her for negligent homicide.
 
"If you asked people doing basic research, "So what's this stuff going to be good for?" they might not have an answer. They might not even be thinking in such terms."

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I wonder if the Nazi scientists had the same attitude? Maybe the scientists at Tuskegee?

Without taking a side (because I can see both sides), science can run amok, in my opinion.
 
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
I wonder if the Nazi scientists had the same attitude? Maybe the scientists at Tuskegee?
What are you implying? Spell it out for us.

Originally Posted By: Reginald
And as to trusting science and looking to science for answers, I merely point out that science is the only method we have for understanding the physical universe, our only way of thinking that lets us make testable predictions about matter and energy, and our only tool for dealing with the unpleasant and dangerous aspects of nature.
Really? I'm glad someone installed my science chip er I wouldn't know nuttin!
 
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