School Me On 12V Inverters

Propflux01

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I have some confusion about inverters. I am looking to make a small power source to provide power for a TV, lamp, fan, and possibly a small fridge, in case of a power outage. I want to use a 12v pure sine wave inverter and 100AH LiFe04 battery. It is only for temporary use, and not connected to the house fuse box or anything like that. While researching this, I keep coming up on grounding. With some inverters stating “bonded Neutral Ground”, and “floating ground”, and getting mixed messages about either. My question is does it really affect anything for the setup that im wanting? Some of the inverters say “floating ground”, some say “Neutral bonded”. Not sure which type to get or if it even matters. Advice?
 
I can't help you with that advanced question other than saying, have a bunch of spare fuses attached to the inverter. I ran a 12V inverter for many years powering my work laptop and printer out of my company car. Occasional power surges would overload the weak inverters the company gave us and I'd have to replace the fuse.
 
I have some confusion about inverters. I am looking to make a small power source to provide power for a TV, lamp, fan, and possibly a small fridge, in case of a power outage. I want to use a 12v pure sine wave inverter and 100AH LiFe04 battery. It is only for temporary use, and not connected to the house fuse box or anything like that. While researching this, I keep coming up on grounding. With some inverters stating “bonded Neutral Ground”, and “floating ground”, and getting mixed messages about either. My question is does it really affect anything for the setup that im wanting? Some of the inverters say “floating ground”, some say “Neutral bonded”. Not sure which type to get or if it even matters. Advice?
100Ah will not last long with (all) those things (running full). (edited)

I wouldn't worry about a stand alone ground frankly and you certainly aren't tying into the service ground. Is this a boxed unit? What do the instructions say? (I'm curious)
 
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100Ah will not last long with those things.

I wouldn't worry about a stand alone ground frankly and you certainly aren't tying into the service ground. Is this a boxed unit? What do the instructions say? (I'm curious)
I have not purchased yet, just researching when I came up on all this grounding stuff. I just needed something to run those items for a couple three hours at a time during storms.
 
I have not purchased yet, just researching when I came up on all this grounding stuff. I just needed something to run those items for a couple three hours at a time during storms.
Just total your watts, do the math. Sure a few of those items, you can power fine. Just know the loss to conversion.

Our van has near 800Ah cap and inverter we have a 12V fridge, gas heater (with small fan), two vent u/l air fans (not much winter use), a few 12V LED lights, and yeah OK the 120V induction stove top (!) and water heater (!) ( hahaha luxury) and seems like the battery goes down faster than I like (I'm not whining, it's really fine) . Just saying 100Ah is pretty light. Some ebikes have more! Ok maybe not but still :ROFLMAO:
 
Cool. I was mainly wondering about the grounding thing. Had me a bit confused on the neutral to ground thing. Didn’t know if it was an issue with the things I want to run.
 
I have some confusion about inverters. I am looking to make a small power source to provide power for a TV, lamp, fan, and possibly a small fridge, in case of a power outage. I want to use a 12v pure sine wave inverter and 100AH LiFe04 battery. It is only for temporary use, and not connected to the house fuse box or anything like that. While researching this, I keep coming up on grounding. With some inverters stating “bonded Neutral Ground”, and “floating ground”, and getting mixed messages about either. My question is does it really affect anything for the setup that im wanting? Some of the inverters say “floating ground”, some say “Neutral bonded”. Not sure which type to get or if it even matters. Advice?
I have not purchased yet, just researching when I came up on all this grounding stuff. I just needed something to run those items for a couple three hours at a time during storms.
My understanding is that the neutral wire must be not be bonded to the ground terminal if you are connecting the inverter (or a generator) to your home's circuit breaker panel. If you will be running extension cords directly from the inverter (or generator) to the appliance (e.g., TV, lamp, fan, etc.), you can use a floating ground or bonded ground. However, be aware that most modern gas furnaces will not actuate without detecting a bonded ground circuit. The following video discusses floating and bonded grounds applications for generators, which also apply for an inverter.

 
100Ah will not last long with those things.
I guess that depends upon your definition of "long." My entire home seems to idle at 700 watts, including two full size refrigerators and a 15 cubic foot chest freezer. A simple SWAG would suggest his load to be on the order of 250-300 watts. If so he could expect at least three hours on a 100Ah battery.

@Propflux01 Have you considered measuring the actual load before you embark on this experiment? Try a P3 Kill a Watt meter. The investment may save you in the long run if it prevents you from undersizing the battery.

As to the original question concerning grounding I have a floating system in my garden shed used to power a pure sinewave inverter when I want to run a battery charger or a power tool. Thus far there have been no issues.
 
I guess that depends upon your definition of "long." My entire home seems to idle at 700 watts, including two full size refrigerators and a 15 cubic foot chest freezer. A simple SWAG would suggest his load to be on the order of 250-300 watts. If so he could expect at least three hours on a 100Ah battery.

@Propflux01 Have you considered measuring the actual load before you embark on this experiment? Try a P3 Kill a Watt meter. The investment may save you in the long run if it prevents you from undersizing the battery.

As to the original question concerning grounding I have a floating system in my garden shed used to power a pure sinewave inverter when I want to run a battery charger or a power tool. Thus far there have been no issues.
Fair enough. I'm just a plenty of Ah reserve person. I edited my post a bit for clarity. Yes, I popped my 15A breaker running the e-kettle and Nespresso same time. :cool: :ROFLMAO: I mentioned totally things up, but yes a meter in real time is of course better.
 
Since this isn't tied to a vehicle system, don't limit to 12 volts. I would build it as a 24 volt nominal system (two identical 12.8V batteries in series, or a 25.6V). This reduces the current in the DC side by half, meaning less resistance loss even as you may use smaller cables.
 
Another consideration is inrush current starting the fridge compressor. There will be a brief spike as the motor starts that can be up to 3x the running current once the compressor is spinning. Make sure your AC inverter has this overhead built in. An easy conversion is to remember that it'll take approximately 10x the current from the battery (at 12Vdc) as you are drawing at 120VAC. So if your AC current requirements are 3amps, you are drawing 30amps from that battery. A nominal output from a 100amp rated deep cycle lithium battery before the internal controller shuts it down, especially drawing high amperage, is about 70AH. In the example above, running 3amps at 120VAC (360watts for easy numbers) = 30 amps at 12V so the 70AH will give you just over 2 hours of run time.
 
I looked into to this a few years ago for a sump pump backup system. The best solution seemed to be a combo inverter/charger and batteries. No pure sine wave and deep discharge lead acid batteries was the setup but the cost was prohibitive, IMO. I compromised with a Liberty backup pump.

There was a website that sold all those things called The Inverter Store or something like that.
 
Go get 'em tiger. My Temu LifePO4+s really have the rated capacity; I've discharged them 93-95% and they still had more to give. My off grid solar system has an amps in/out sensor and I've confirmed their capacity this way.

Of the appliances listed, only the fridge will have a ground prong anyway. Grounding is for if the hot side hits the chassis; in your example you'd have to be touching both the fridge chassis and the inverter case at the same time that there's a fault to get shocked. What are the odds of that? Send it.

FWIW, only the electric motors (fridge, fan) really need the pure sine wave. The TV will run on anything with its switching power supplies. Many people think electronics=expensive=fragile but it isn't so. That being said, any inverter that isn't a pure sine wave is garbage you can skip over. Just read the fine print about total harmonic distortion; a "pure sine wave" is marketing speak for a bunch of squares arranged in a parabolic shape and there are rounding artifacts to get there.
 
Cheap inverters have dirty sinewave output, and are not reliable.

I did a lot of research about inverters about 4 years ago. Theres plenty of people who buy cheap inverters only to have them break or damage items because the output is not a clean sinewave.

One of my brotherd bought a cheap inverter so his wife could use an electric blanket in his F150 when they travel. But its dirty sinewave output fried the control for that electric blanket.

I bought a 2,200 W output with very clean sinewave output, made by MeanWell. They ain't cheap, and few electronic supply companies rep them ( carry their products ).

MeanWell inverters are very high quality and cost a lot more. Their output is a very clean sinewave. Likley even cleaner than most house power. Their inverters are used big yachts, and the reliability and sine wave purity, though not advertised as such, are medical grade.

I had to call MeanWell to find who to purchase it from. If I rember correct it was Digital Electronic in Texas.

I upgraded my 2016 CR-V with a 350 Amp alternator from Apex, that can put out 185 A at idle, upgraded the battery from the original 51R to a 24F, and bought 350 A anderson low voltage high current quick connectors, and had a local stereo shop install zero ga. wire upgtade from the 24F battery + and gnd. to the new alternator + and block, and then a 350 fuse and ran + and gnd. into the vehicles cabin through the firewall behind the glovebox, ran that through trim in the vehicle by passengers door, and out under front passengers seat with about 14 inches of slack and terminates with an Anderson 350 A connector. Inverter had mating Anderson 350 A connector wired to the inverter. All zero ga. wire. Marked both of the all red Anderson connectors with a lot of big black sharpie on the gnd. side of both.

Stereo shop also put velcro on the bottom of the inverter so it sticks to the carpet of the floor of the vehicle.

Bought 100 ft. of 12 - 3 outdoor extension and riged an access hole behind the front passengers seat.

I also had to change the serpentine belt to a Continental number 4070562 that is 56.2 inches long ( 0.3 inches shorter than the original ) to take up the slack because the Apex high current alternator has a slightly smaller puley so it spins faster.

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My PAYNE forced air furnace detected that the neutral was not tied to GND. the first time I test ran it from the inverter. I ran the combustion air draft inducer fan but then shut down and would not run the main forced air fan, and would not run the igniter and gas.

I made up a short cord that ties neutral to GND. and connected that in series between the extension cord female and the male plug 🔌 I added to the furnace, and with that, the furnace runs fine when powered by the inverter.

All of this cost my around $2,400.00

The vehicle gets about 2.75 hours per gallon when idling continous to power the furnace and a few other small items.

We had 2 outages when I used it so far.

Be sure to run the vehicles AC if it not a very cold day so the inverter stays cool. If its is a cold day, be sure to set the venting to outside and cold and fan to max.

Its nice to be able to sleep through the night knowing that the vehicles 15.6 gallon fuel tank will run this setup long enough. Compared to putting gas in a generator in cold weather every few hours.

Apex said they did not make a high Amp alternator for the 1.5 L turbo Hondas. So another time that I was happy I went for the normally asperated 2.4 L with the 2016 instead of a 2018 the sales man tried to get me to buy.

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MeanWell sell smaller and larger inverters besides the 2,200 Watts. They also have a line of inverters that have ability to run AC power through and the inverter monitors the AC and very quickly takes over to supply the AC if the AC power fails, so the output is not interrupted by AC power failures.

They make these systems in 12, 24, and 48 VDC inputs.

They also make battery management systems.

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Quality cost. If you want quality MeanWell is one place to look.

Be sure any install has plenty of ventilation. And clean air filtration often.

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Here's a picture of the power cord from a bad window ac unit I added to my furnace and a plug I added to plug the furnace into.

That bottom wire from the furnace to the box is a GND. only so the house GND. is still tied when using the inverter.

To run from the inverter, I unplug it, adde the short lengh of extension cord I made that ties N to GND. to the end of the 100 ft. cord, and connect to the inverter.
IMG_20260125_023616.webp
 
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This is one that I have and recommend as a mid-price option. I bought the 24 volt version on Amazon for about $320.
https://www.jnbpower.com/lge-ti-series-3000w-pure-sine-wave-inverter-12v-to-110v-120v.html
The only problem I had was the GFCI at the output being a Chinese POS which failed to reset after a few trips, but it is easily replaced with a standard non-GFI outlet. Ground is bonded to neutral inside. It has never failed to start and run anything I've connected to it including a Maytag washing machine with digital controls and a 1/2 hp well pump through a step-up transformer.
Idle power consumption (switch on with no load) is only 6 watts.
 
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FWIW, only the electric motors (fridge, fan) really need the pure sine wave.

I don't agree with this. If you intend to plug in an AC/DC converter, a 'power brick', for some electronic device - you'll also want a sine wave. You can severely shorten their life.
 
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