Can oil selection help fuel dilution?

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Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: Garak
If you want the fuel out of the oil, you either need to get the oil up to sufficient temperatures or simply change it out.

You know, I've read this a hundred times on BITOG and I'm wondering if anyone has actually proved this? It's not like my car is never driven over four miles at a time. A couple of weeks ago, I drove 120 miles a day two days in a row. I question the theory that you can drive fuel dilution out of the crankcase.

It would be more accurate to say that bringing the oil up to temperature every time an engine is started will prevent fuel dilution. Once fuel has been allowed to accumulate in the sump through successive cold starts without the oil coming fully up to temperature, may become permanently diluted, at least in part as I understand it at the molecular level. (I think we would need Molekule or some of the other chemists or tribologists on board to give a more precise description of what actually happens.)
Aside from reducing the oil's viscosity this does not seem to reduce an oil's lubricity. As long as oil pressure can be maintained and the TBN level is not depleted there is no real need for concern.

The real problem in not bringing the oil up to temperature every time the engine is started is that the AW additives will not be entirely activated and therefore repeated cold starts and cold running will result in increased engine wear.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
... Once fuel has been allowed to accumulate in the sump through successive cold starts without the oil coming fully up to temperature, may become permanently diluted, at least in part as I understand it at the molecular level. ...


This is what several used oil analysis on my wife's '11 Caddy SRX with the 3.0L DI engine would suggest. Even after a 300 mile road trip with only two brief stops, fuel dilution did not subside any meaningful amount. used oil analysis before and after the trip substantiated the phenomenon. I have done that same test several times and the results are consistent.
 
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
INDYMAC, unfortunately the real problem is the 4 mile commute and under such conditions the oil will not get up to temperature, hence the build up of fuel and condensation in the oil. Even diluted the oil will still be way too viscous due to the low oil temp's.


Take a senic 200+ mile road trip once a month (or week).
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
You know, I've read this a hundred times on BITOG and I'm wondering if anyone has actually proved this? It's not like my car is never driven over four miles at a time. A couple of weeks ago, I drove 120 miles a day two days in a row. I question the theory that you can drive fuel dilution out of the crankcase.


Agreed. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part. I think you and subsequent posters are correct. Thinking back to my old F-150 issues, with the over-fuelling carb, I wasn't doing a lot of short trips. Even when I was and then did a drive of 150 miles before changing the oil, it still reeked of gas to high heaven and, if using a normal API/ILSAC 5w30, the oil pressure gauge would flicker at idle near the end of the OCI. So, obviously a long run didn't make a huge difference in "fixing" my fuel dilution.

CATERHAM's right - we do need a better technical explanation of this. It stands to reason that some fuel might evaporate out on a long trip with the oil at operating temperatures, but a long trip or two certainly isn't going to change fuel diluted oil into something that performs like if it just came out of the bottle.
 
"Can oil selection help fuel dilution?"

For the past several years folks have realized excellent results running Rotella 5w-40 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 in turbocharged engines.
 
The unsaturated aromatic hydrocarbons in the fuel react with the base oils and VIIs and permanently shear them. The sheared ends then oxidize. The oil is permanently damaged and can not be restored by getting it up to temperature. The damage does effect the ability of the oil to lubricate.

What you would see in UOA would be lower viscosity, lower HTHS, high oxidation, and rapid TBN depletion compared to an oil not subjected to excessive fuel dilution. Keeping the OCIs short is the only way to mitigate the effects of fuel dilution.

High quality HDEOs seem to be able to better withstand the effects of fuel dilution better than standard PCMOs.

Ed
 
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^Said it better than I could, I was thinking along the same lines to add to what CATERHAM stated in regards to 'once fuel dilution settles in', basically the effects remain. Great follow up!

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Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
^Said it better than I could, I was thinking along the same lines to add to what CATERHAM stated in regards to 'once fuel dilution settles in', basically the effects remain. Great follow up!

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+1.
indeed true that HDEOs help fight fuel dilution better due to their superior detergency and higher dispersing capacity. Such high amounts of these additives are not allowed in today's PCMOs by the API SN standards!
 
"Every liquid-fuelled engine will have a certain amount of raw fuel in its normal blow-by. If
solid contamination is not present, the raw fuel is evaporated by the internal heat of the
engine. However, fuel dilution does occur within a healthy engine when there is a
sufficient amount of solid contamination for the fuel molecules to adhere to."

From this article:

http://www.thermal-lube.com/Publications/In-Line,%20Continuous%20Monitoring%20of%20Fuel%20Dilution%20in%20Motor%20Oils%20by%20Fourier%20Transform.pdf
 
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