Camry?

[supton]

Am thinking it's time to replace the wife's 2001 Civic. It's got 165k, and I "hear" about how it's pretty common for these to start losing brake lines after 10 years or so. Given how the rust is starting to pop up, and how it doesn't have ABS (we live in a snow state) and 82 air bags (or whatever is the popular number), and the wife drives around with the kids, well, I'm thinking it's time. Plus, with two kids, the Civic can feel small.

These '11 Camry's, base model with manual (wife wants manual, none of this automatic business) -- what should I expect? This Civic required A/C work every other year, and had the front wheel bearings done last year, and (according to the dealer) rusted out an oil pan--all in all, about the same amount of headaches as my TDi (wheel bearings, struts and EGR x2), although the TDi has never required towing (Civic did when it blew a CV joint, of course with an infant in the car).

I know no timing chain, and the 4 cylinder is 10k OCI, and should do mid 30's highway / mid 20's cities; but that's about it. Are the manual transmissions reliable, will it go 10 years before the rust gets bad, and all that? I feel I have to ask, as her Honda wasn't quite as great as everyone touts Honda to be...

We've thought about Mazda5, but feel kinda iffy about Mazda--just not rated as reliable as Honda/Toyota, plus if I have to ride in it I'd like to aim for something quiet--my VW is reasonably quiet, and I'd hate to start taking the new car on long road trips and dealing with noise. Minivan seems overkill for just two kids, plus low mpg for all the town driving she does (she's about 15k/year, probably half is at 40mph or less back roads)--and no stick shift. No experience with Hyundai, they seem well rated--but I'm not sure if the wife would spring for something that will only last 5 years (they seem to have rust issues--or at least they did). Oh, we live in NH, the "we have more salt on roads than in our tummy" state.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

That's too bad your Civic had that much work needed. I had the same car and none of what you had to do was needed on mine. I managed 227k on it and sold it to a dealer for $2300.


If the wife WANTS a manual, I'd go out and get it today. The Camry will have a very long life.

 

[supton]

Yep, we both were surprised at the a/c work. Thermal protection switch twice, something else a third time, and the fourth time was final: they said the whole system. Am told this is not uncommon, Honda uses small orifices and they plug easy. Plus, this is a salt state, and everything is getting rusty, so I could easily see every line breaking if they tried to replace just one item.

It froze one rear wheel one time. Right after baby #1, it was parked for 3 months. Idiot me, never thought to move it. When she did, it dragged one wheel for like 100 yards until it broke free. I think that got new drums and rotors all around, or maybe it was just drums, don't remember now.

It goes. But I think it's time for some poor starving college student.

We noticed 0% APR listed in some ads, so gotta do the homework. Plus it'd be nice to pay this off before I have to replace my TDi, that's also got rust issues that I oughta get fixed at the dealer (ha!) and at 228 isn't a spring chicken either.

 

[johnachak]

Chevy Cruze? Or a Malibu?

 

[chubbs1]

I just purchased a Sonata (2011)GLS and I was iffy before I test drove it...then that changed my mind. I think they have dealt with the rust issue because the underside of the car has quite a coating of something under it. It is VERY peppy for a 4 cyl. and is consistent at 28mpg with 100% city driving. Very roomy more than the Accord and Altima and others in the class. It came down to the warranty and the deal they gave for the upgraded GLS package. Very good people to work with too. I highly recommend you check one out. I was more impressed with the value of the Hyundai over the Camry...but we all have different tastes. I just can't say enough good things about this car so far. Total surprise to me, the deal breakers again were the warranty and all you get for the price. There is a 10 year rust warranty so see if Toyota has the same.

 

[hate2work]

Supton, I think the 2011 4 cyl has a timing chain.

Camry 1990-2001 All Belt
2002-2011 4 Cylinder Chain
1990-2006 V6 Belt
2007-2011 V6 Chain


http://www.toyota.com/help/faqs/service-does_my_vehicle_have_a_timing_belt_or_a_timing_chain.html

 

[cmf]

The manual transmissions are fine. 4 cylinder grocery getters aren't exactly tough on transmissions (manual or automatic).

But just so you know, it's 22 city and 33 highway. I don't own a Camry but my car is 21/31 and more realistically it's about 19/29 because I have tires made for traction and accelerate at a reasonable pace. Considering you live in a snow state you can expect even worse mileage in the winter. You should look at a compact car built for fuel economy if that is a selling point to you.

No car is maintenance free. Honda doesn't even rate great as far as reliability goes these days. Buying a new Toyota or Honda makes sense though because people are willing to pay a premium for them used. The resale value is the only reason I would consider a Camry. There are better cars out there, especially ones that have received a recent update.

In the end though, you're not driving it; if she wants it then it's a good investment because of it's ability to hold resale value and the demand of used Toyotas.

 

[supton]

I *used* to get EPA, then they lowered the numbers--but that's ok, I drove faster so I could match again.

Wife still pulls off 36mpg in her Civic, it'd be higher but we've never bothered to take the snow tires off... In short, she should at least match the "new" highway mpg.

Part of the reason for buying is so I can take to the dealer. We live at least 30 minutes from any dealership. She's a stay at home mom, so it's a special trip for service, and with the kids no less. It gets old... No garage here, not even pavement, and I hate changing oil (spoiled by the TDi I am). Plus I just don't have the time to mess with cars. Drop it off in the morning, and catch a ride back in the evening.

If we could get to the point of owing a car for just 5 years, well, I'm not sure what we'd do. Probably buy automatic's so we could sell/trade easier. But we like those years of no payments--and no repairs--and I'm not sure that Hyundai has gotten there. GM/domestic, I dunno. They all have problems, some more than others. But I suspect we really want appliance cars... The kids are 4&6, and I have a career, and all that.

Dunno about Corolla, I think in some ways we just want a bigger car. My Jetta isn't exactly that huge either (just has a decent sized trunk). I suppose it's possible that in a few years I could get the Camry and she gets something else (not a great idea, as I drive 22k just for work--and pick up another 10k in family duties--combined miles for our two cars is about 47kmiles/year).

Still looking at the options, gathering data. I appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

 

[warrior]

Originally Posted By: johnachak
Chevy Cruze? Or a Malibu?


GM went out of business for a very good reason. Stay far,far away from any GM product. Stick with Honda. I personnaly prefer the accord to camry. Most honda's are made in the USA. Many GM's made in MEXICO. JMO...

 

[hattaresguy]

My friend is on his second, he had an 06 with the 4 cylinder and now has a 2011 with the V6.

He put 170k on the 06 and now has about 30k on the 11, no issues other than normal maintenance.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: warrior
Originally Posted By: johnachak
Chevy Cruze? Or a Malibu?


GM went out of business for a very good reason. Stay far,far away from any GM product. Stick with Honda. I personnaly prefer the accord to camry. Most honda's are made in the USA. Many GM's made in MEXICO. JMO...


Really nice.

The Cruze is assembled in Lordstown, OH and the Malibu is assembled in Kansas City, Kansas.

You don't even have the slightest clue as to what you are talking about.

 

[PandaBear]

If everything rust like you mention then most cars will die due to rust rather than reliability reason. Get the cheapest appliance car you like would be good enough as long as it has good warranty (length and reputation of actually honoring it).

Mazda's reliability is fine if you are not buying RX8.

 

[Ed_T]

Your new Camry will NOT have direct injection.

A major plus.

87,600 miles here and never in shop for any repair at all.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I had a 2011 Camry and if you search the Vehicles forum on here, you can see my repeated reviews of it.

In a word, it was fantastic. I didn't own it long enough to gather long-term reliability data, but it was a great car while I had it. Mine was the automatic, and I averaged about 29 mpg with it. I also has the base model, and I will caution you about the base model. It's a fantastic deal (especially if you can buy it as a loss leader as I did mine), IF you and your wife can get comfortable in the seat. I have decided that I really don't like Toyota's manual seats and would have prefered power because there's a much wider range of adjustment on the power seat. The manual seat is too low to the floor, and as you raise the seat up, it also tilts forward, which was not comfortable to me.

That was the biggest detractor for me. There were other things, like it was not easy to use in parking lots if my wife had to use it for some reason, etc. We traded it for the CR-V in my signature because we could get more for it on trade than we paid for it.

The plusses:

The 2AR-FE 2.5L engine is fantastically refined. Folks here spoke highly of Honda's K24 2.4L engine, and I agree it's a nice engine, but none of them must have sampled Toyota's 2.5L engine because they're just not in the same league. The Toyota engine is so dadgum smooth, it's easily mistaken for a V-6. It also has plenty of giddyup for the Camry, which is relatively light for its size (3,200 pounds). I found the interior design of the Camry to be breathtakingly simple. It's impossible to get confused in that car. Switches are exactly where they should be, at proper reach, and there are no offending surfaces, textures, or colors.

It's just a really, REALLY good commuting sedan. If that's what you are looking for, you can't go wrong with a Camry. I've driven a number of its competitors, and for the job it's intended for, I don't think the others answer the mail quite as well.

 

[cmf]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: warrior
Originally Posted By: johnachak
Chevy Cruze? Or a Malibu?


GM went out of business for a very good reason. Stay far,far away from any GM product. Stick with Honda. I personnaly prefer the accord to camry. Most honda's are made in the USA. Many GM's made in MEXICO. JMO...


Really nice.

The Cruze is assembled in Lordstown, OH and the Malibu is assembled in Kansas City, Kansas.

You don't even have the slightest clue as to what you are talking about.


What's funny is the highest rated mid-size for reliability in recent years has been the Fusion. It's built at a factory in Mexico. Factory workers don't really vary much from place to place, it's the quality control that matters.

I also don't think Toyota manufacturers the parts in America, it's just assembled here. Assembly is mostly automated, and again it's the quality control that matters.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: supton


We've thought about Mazda5, but feel kinda iffy about Mazda--just not rated as reliable as Honda/Toyota, plus if I have to ride in it I'd like to aim for something quiet--my VW is reasonably quiet, and I'd hate to start taking the new car on long road trips and dealing with noise. Minivan seems overkill for just two kids, plus low mpg for all the town driving she does (she's about 15k/year, probably half is at 40mph or less back roads)--and no stick shift.


we have a Mazda5 stick shift; it's the ONLY vehicle in its segment w/ a stick. ours is an '09 we bought new, have about 28K on it now, all its needed was tires (I got a big cut in one of them).
it's really much smaller than a minivan, its more of a 6 seat car. its based on the Mazda3 so it drives and handles like a car.
local mixed mpg is 24-25, summer, A/C on all the time. it'll get over 30 hwy.
and road noise is quite minimal when I don't have my thule roof rack on.
the '12 has the 2.5 and 6 speed just like the Mazda3.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: cmf
I also don't think Toyota manufacturers the parts in America, it's just assembled here. Assembly is mostly automated, and again it's the quality control that matters.


Since you brought it up, the Camry is built in Georgetown, KY, and has 80% or higher domestic content, which is higher than any other midsize sedan to my knowledge. The Fusion is technically an import, not because it's built in Mexico, but because it has less than 50% domestic content (more like 20-30% as I understand).

 

[supton]

I've contemplated GM products. From what I've read they have come a long ways. And, they have always been "a GM will run poorly longer than most will run." Still, unless if I went Cobalt I am stuck with an automatic. Perhaps it's time to give in, but we've long enjoyed getting that extra bit out of a good sticksift. I guess I shouldn't rule out picking up a GM for myself, used, for a cheaper commuter. But I drive 100miles a day for work, she's doing the shopping for herself, and I don't know if she wants GM.

[Last year I drove an Accent(?) with automatic. Not bad, it did its best. But it would not stay in Eco mode over 70mph. When not in Eco mode it would downshift with the slightest throttle change. Maybe that's not a problem with 6 and 7 speed automatics--but on that poor 4 speed auto it really did rev up. Clutch is also nice for driving in snow.]

Interesting comments on the base model. Will definately keep that in mind. Thanks.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
...the '12 has the 2.5 and 6 speed just like the Mazda3.

Unfortunately, the M/T is only available w/the "Sport" trim, the lowest of the three (Sport, Touring & Grand Touring). Thus, if you want the sill extensions, nicer wheels, hatch spoiler, Bluetooth (amongst other items), you have to forgo the Sport and get the A/T-only Touring or GT. Note: The A/T is shiftable, though I'm not sure it's especially useful (and no paddles, only gate).

Also, with the furthest seats up, there is virtually no storage space. In our situation (two little kids), it's not a problem 99% of the time; that said, I'll probably be buying a rear hitch and basket carrier for the occasional road trip. It is a fun car to drive though...peppy, if not powerful and tracks really well (independent rear suspension), w/decent gas mileage (I'm getting ~25 w/AC on). Very happy w/this purchase so far!

M_C

 

[supton]

25mpg, that would bug the wife. 36mpg down to 25 would bother her in principle, although she'd probably get over eventually. She also doesn't want fancy wheels--17" rims are lost on us, although I haven't priced rubber lately. Don't forget, we'd need to immediately buy snow tires (Nokian WR's sorta work, but not well enough in our opinion). But I guess even if came with 17" rims we could get 16" (or 15"?) rimes and snows?

We very rarely chat on the phone period, so no Bluetooth is fine; unless if the spoiler adds mpg's she wouldn't want that either. iPod connection, keyless entry, and auto up/down windows--now those are options she'd want. Why can't that be standard on all cars now, just like a/c?

That's one of our issues with the Mazda5--once you put the seats up you have no cargo capacity. If you're getting 25mpg it seems to be only a 3mpg (10%) or so hit plus another 10k for a minivan; out here parking isn't a problem (no city issues). That's one of our hangups; it's so close yet not quite.