Cadillac Upscale Car Sharing Program

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Originally Posted By: madRiver
Making a superior product is irrelevant in something emotional like car buying.


Perfect! In a nutshell. People use far more emotions than sense in purchases.
 
If you can actually book and keep using the -V models, it's probably not a bad price... If you were so inclined..

Road trip? Grab the escalate or old mans big caddy... Rest of the time, keep a cts-V or maybe an awd one in the winter.

Tires and maintenance add up.

Would be fun for a while I'd think... But again, it's all about ease of access to the -V models. Otherwise there's no money in it...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: GMBoy

I disagree. The ATS-V and CTS-V have been beating BMW and MB at their game according to every road test. Even the regular CTS and ATS are right up there with them. They've come a long way and have better interiors, less costly to own and more reliable.


If you talk handling dynamics the ATS is a class leader. Interiors are very subjective and do not influence every buyer to run to BMW/Mercedes. I rented a base ATS for a month back when they first came out. Even with the N/A 3.6 they are a rocket and the driving experience was among the best I have ever had in ANY car, outstanding handling, braking, acceleration, etc. Lower curb weight, too.

I think it's nothing more than snobbery, a Caddy just doesn't have the snob appeal. Mercedes and BMW have a TON of snobbery built right in for those who must have it that Caddy will never have

Rebadged Opel with horrid manual transmission, and even worse automatic as any Opel.
2.0ltr Turbo based on old design by Cosworth in 1991, which was at that time a bullet especially with turbo in Opel Calibra. However, fall behind others big time because of GM approach to business. You cannot catch up just like that, regardless what "real people, not actors" say.
Owned 6 Opels. Drove ATS and CTs, and feels like Opel.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Drove ATS and CTs, and feels like Opel.


Ouch! Like an Opel. Don't think you could insult it more than that.
 
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Drove ATS and CTs, and feels like Opel.


Ouch! Like an Opel. Don't think you could insult it more than that.

It is, and it is developed mostly in Germany, as apparently other GM cars.
Buick Regal is literally to the core rebadged Opel.
I admire their attempt, and they did a lot of good stuff (I owned Opel's, and liked each one I owned), especially when it comes to suspension, but gear boxes and engines? Give me a break.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Rebadged Opel with horrid manual transmission, and even worse automatic as any Opel.
2.0ltr Turbo based on old design by Cosworth in 1991, which was at that time a bullet especially with turbo in Opel Calibra. However, fall behind others big time because of GM approach to business. You cannot catch up just like that, regardless what "real people, not actors" say.
Owned 6 Opels. Drove ATS and CTs, and feels like Opel.


That's your opinion. Bully for you.

Quotes from automotive press: "A safe touch of understeer gives way to near-perfect balance and incredible poise up to the 0.90-g limit. Wheel motions are admirably well controlled and damped, and it seems nothing can upset the ATS’s line. You can drive this car the same way on a rough patchwork road as you’d drive the BMW on a smooth one."

More: "Should you overestimate the length of a straight, a firm and responsive braking system brings things to a halt in just 160 feet from 70 mph, 12 feet shorter than the BMW’s mushier pedal can manage. It’s just too bad that Cadillac couldn’t come up with a chassis like this before electric power steering exterminated road feel. While the ATS’s wheel proffers heavy weighting and linear buildup, we’d be lying if we said feel wasn’t muffled. At least there’s some; the BMW’s steering is even more artificial."

The automotive press disagrees. And the ATS is only one of 3 fine cars including Buick and Chevy. All lauded as great drivers by many folks. You still get to buy whatever you want.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Aren't most Acura models just rebadged Honda models from EU? Even the iconic NSX did not escape badgeineering.

Yep.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Rebadged Opel with horrid manual transmission, and even worse automatic as any Opel.
2.0ltr Turbo based on old design by Cosworth in 1991, which was at that time a bullet especially with turbo in Opel Calibra. However, fall behind others big time because of GM approach to business. You cannot catch up just like that, regardless what "real people, not actors" say.
Owned 6 Opels. Drove ATS and CTs, and feels like Opel.


That's your opinion. Bully for you.

Quotes from automotive press: "A safe touch of understeer gives way to near-perfect balance and incredible poise up to the 0.90-g limit. Wheel motions are admirably well controlled and damped, and it seems nothing can upset the ATS’s line. You can drive this car the same way on a rough patchwork road as you’d drive the BMW on a smooth one."

More: "Should you overestimate the length of a straight, a firm and responsive braking system brings things to a halt in just 160 feet from 70 mph, 12 feet shorter than the BMW’s mushier pedal can manage. It’s just too bad that Cadillac couldn’t come up with a chassis like this before electric power steering exterminated road feel. While the ATS’s wheel proffers heavy weighting and linear buildup, we’d be lying if we said feel wasn’t muffled. At least there’s some; the BMW’s steering is even more artificial."

The automotive press disagrees. And the ATS is only one of 3 fine cars including Buick and Chevy. All lauded as great drivers by many folks. You still get to buy whatever you want.

I do not need others to drive car for me.
3 fine cars from Buick and Chevy? First one is so common on the road that winning mega million is easier then to see it (literally rebadged Opel) and Chevy? Well, Hertz loves them, that is for sure.
 
Why are you so hung up on Buick being a rebadged Opel? Opel is not being sold in NA, so bringing those models over here and selling as a more known brand makes perfect sense. Acura is doing just that with Honda sedans.
Also, the Buicks get the upscale interiors and premium engines, like the 2.0T. You will not find the basic engines that are available in Opels. The suspension tuning could also be totally different. In essence, besides similar outside looks, these models could feel and drive totally different.

Also, you see many Mercedes Benz vehicles being driven as taxi cabs in EU, should we start lamenting that the Merc models we have in NA are nothing more than tarted up taxi cabs? What about the low end BMW models/trims that we never see in NA? Should we bash BMW for selling us overpriced appliances.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Why are you so hung up on Buick being a rebadged Opel? Opel is not being sold in NA, so bringing those models over here and selling as a more known brand makes perfect sense. Acura is doing just that with Honda sedans.
Also, the Buicks get the upscale interiors and premium engines, like the 2.0T. You will not find the basic engines that are available in Opels. The suspension tuning could also be totally different. In essence, besides similar outside looks, these models could feel and drive totally different.

Also, you see many Mercedes Benz vehicles being driven as taxi cabs in EU, should we start lamenting that the Merc models we have in NA are nothing more than tarted up taxi cabs? What about the low end BMW models/trims that we never see in NA? Should we bash BMW for selling us overpriced appliances.



Really? 2.0T engine is Opel's product. You can find them in Opel Insignia. All turbo engines in GM are product of Opel.
Reason why I am saying is that Opel is, how to put it, people's car, but sold here under Buick or Cadillac as luxury. Cadillac hides its roots, Buick not whatsoever. Difference between Buick Regal and Opel Insignia is that Regal has instruments in Fahrenheit's and miles and that is it. For some time Buick Regal's were actually made in Opel factories.
Opel is a good car, and Buick and Cadillac are having a lot of Opel DNA, so comparing it to MB, BMW etc. is nonsense.
As for "low-end" BMW's, reason why they are not here is that you cannot fit 24oz cup in them, other then that, I would take BMW 318d over any Cadillac or Buick at any given day.
Low end? U.S Acura in Europe is Honda, I would say you will find much more sophisticated engineering from any manufacturer (including the U.S manufacturers) in Europe then here, including MB taxi's. When you have to pay $6-7 for a gallon of gas or diesel, you cannot play games with what you put under the hood.
That is why GM is transplanting engines and other stuff from their subsidiary in Europe.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Aren't most Acura models just rebadged Honda models from EU? Even the iconic NSX did not escape badgeineering.


Some of them have been, sort of. More broadly, I think most Acura models are simply sold as Honda models overseas, Acura being a brand name applied only in North America. The RSX and Integra were sold as Acuras here and as Hondas overseas. It was not based on a European model. The TL was derived from the US-spec Accord. The TSX was based on the global-spec Accord (sometimes called the CL-series Accord). The MDX has always been a North American model, and shares much with the Honda Pilot (it actually pre-dates the Pilot by one model year). It's sold as the Honda MDX overseas, but interestingly enough, the MDX was designed and assembled in North America and exported to global markets from Alliston, Ontario.

Yes, some Acura models sold here are re-badged global models. But there are also global Honda models based on NA-spec Acura vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Low end? U.S Acura in Europe is Honda, I would say you will find much more sophisticated engineering from any manufacturer (including the U.S manufacturers) in Europe then here, including MB taxi's. When you have to pay $6-7 for a gallon of gas or diesel, you cannot play games with what you put under the hood.
That is why GM is transplanting engines and other stuff from their subsidiary in Europe.


Yes, yes, we all know how sophisticated and advanced Honda is. After all they used distributor caps well into 2000's and still need valve adjustments to this day. Yay for progress and sophistication...
Meanwhile GM can do an old tech pushrod with full VVT and cylinder deactivation that doesn't sludge up the engine and doesn't need $1k worth of engine mounts.

And go to EU and buy any of Toyota's product. Even farm equipment has newer tech.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Low end? U.S Acura in Europe is Honda, I would say you will find much more sophisticated engineering from any manufacturer (including the U.S manufacturers) in Europe then here, including MB taxi's. When you have to pay $6-7 for a gallon of gas or diesel, you cannot play games with what you put under the hood.
That is why GM is transplanting engines and other stuff from their subsidiary in Europe.


Yes, yes, we all know how sophisticated and advanced Honda is. After all they used distributor caps well into 2000's and still need valve adjustments to this day. Yay for progress and sophistication...
Meanwhile GM can do an old tech pushrod with full VVT and cylinder deactivation that doesn't sludge up the engine and doesn't need $1k worth of engine mounts.

And go to EU and buy any of Toyota's product. Even farm equipment has newer tech.

I know, and only one of those companies had to be bailed out. Super sophisticated.
 
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