Got a new 2003 Chevrolet Duramax Diesel. Have run about 3K miles since changing factory fill to Delvac 1 (6K total miles on truck). Oil started getting really black about 2k miles after the change. I know soot in the oil is somewhat normal in diesel engines. My question is how detrimental is soot (abrasive or otherwise) to the engine and how good of a job do most bypass oil filters (such as the AMSOIL bypass filter) do at removing soot from the oil?
Bypass Oil Filters and Diesel Soot
- Thread starter Captain Lenny
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It really depends on the size of the soot particles. Most soot, although it does optically make the oil black beyond opaque, is too small to filter, and (thank goodness) too small to cause massive wear.
Sure a remote bypass will help, more filtering, more oil capacity are always a good thing, but your oil still will get dark. (maybe not as fast)
Sure a remote bypass will help, more filtering, more oil capacity are always a good thing, but your oil still will get dark. (maybe not as fast)
The last time I ran a by-pass filter (Frantz) the oil was always clear and appeared clean. The filter was dark and dirty when I changed it.
I have an Amsoil filter that I'm about to install on my truck, and I expect that oil to remain clean as long as I keep up on changing the filters.
I have an Amsoil filter that I'm about to install on my truck, and I expect that oil to remain clean as long as I keep up on changing the filters.
The AMSOIL Bypass Filter element will remove particles down to less than 1 micron. The oil will discolor from smaller particles, but will remain quite clear (you can read the dipstick through it) for a long time.
Oil analysis will normally show less than 1% soot until such time as the filter begins to become saturated and lose effectiveness (actually, flow through it is restricted so not as great a volume will flow through).
Nope, it won't stay as clear as a bottle of cooking oil---
Oil analysis will normally show less than 1% soot until such time as the filter begins to become saturated and lose effectiveness (actually, flow through it is restricted so not as great a volume will flow through).
Nope, it won't stay as clear as a bottle of cooking oil---
Check this oil analysis for info on the Cummins and the Amsoil Bypass. Another alternative is the Amsoil Spin-on single bypass and leave your FF in it's present position. I use the GCF on my PSD and have been very happy with it. Ralph Wood one of the Site Sponsors sell this filter.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=000031
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=000031
To answer your question, soot is a sub micronic particle that is very abrasive. But since it's submicronic, it won't cause much wear---unless it agglomorates(sp?) once they join together it will become bigger and with then cause damage, this is where a good diesel rated oil will have the proper additives to keep the soot from doing this.
Another problem is where there is the % soot in the oil. Less than 3% you are fine, in most cirlcles over 4% wear and damage can occur to the engine. Hence the reason Oil analysis is critical for extended drains for diesels.
Lastly, I have several oil analysis of Diesel Pickups with over 100,000 miles without an oil change. When using a by-pass system, the filters will keep the soot level in check, so when you change out the filter, your % soot will stay below the 3% for an indefinate period.
This can be done with any of the high quality By-pass systems. Amsoil has a great setup as well as others, the main advantage of the Amsoil by-pass is that it's a spin on type filter that is very easy to change, and not so messy(depending on where it's mounted)when you do change it.
I believe there are about 30 different type of by-pass filters on the market.
Good Luck,
Captain Lenny,
They don't put good filters on anything as standard equipment. General Motors sells a big filter as optional equipment that can remove most of the soot. The word I get is they factory installed 200 of their best bypass filters on Cat engines in medium duty trucks for North Carolina Department of Transportation. I haven't checked it out but the GM part # (I get is) 15071671.
It is almost the same as Vetteman has on his PSD except the fittings are arranged differently. Vetteman didn't pay the GM price. All you can do with soot is get as much as you can by using the best filter available. Normally the make up oil will dilute the soot too small to be removed to keep it down to about 1%. I had a Gulf Coast 0-2 on my Ford diesel but it was more than I needed. I took it to work and put it on a glycol system. I installed two Motor Guard M-30's on the diesel. I brought back the Motor Guard of California to use with a Perma-Cool sandwich adapter. The Motor Guard is a little better than the Amsoil BE 100 with a little more filtering capacity. The Motor Guard has the quality and is the least messy to change of any filter I've seen. As far as filtering ability there are probably a dozen scattered around the world that filter about the same.
If your oil is black but feels like new oil and doesn't stain your skin it's OK. I don't spend much on oil analysis. I have Perma-Cool adapters for that Allison automatic for installing a Motor Guard M-30.
The Perma-Cool adapter converts the system to use a 3/4-16 thread filter such as Ford or Chrysler. The advantage to replacing the little spin on is more capacity. The disavantage is too long a filter might get hit by rocks, etc. Transmission fluid can be a lot dirtier than the engine oil even though it looks good on the dipstick. Color can be very misleading. When that white element turns grey you know you are doing some good.
Don't take a GM vehicle back to the dealer for warranty problems with all this extra hardware and Ford filters. Drive the truck awhile to make sure it is OK before installing any non GM products. Don't give them an excuse not to make good on a warranty.
Ralph
They don't put good filters on anything as standard equipment. General Motors sells a big filter as optional equipment that can remove most of the soot. The word I get is they factory installed 200 of their best bypass filters on Cat engines in medium duty trucks for North Carolina Department of Transportation. I haven't checked it out but the GM part # (I get is) 15071671.
It is almost the same as Vetteman has on his PSD except the fittings are arranged differently. Vetteman didn't pay the GM price. All you can do with soot is get as much as you can by using the best filter available. Normally the make up oil will dilute the soot too small to be removed to keep it down to about 1%. I had a Gulf Coast 0-2 on my Ford diesel but it was more than I needed. I took it to work and put it on a glycol system. I installed two Motor Guard M-30's on the diesel. I brought back the Motor Guard of California to use with a Perma-Cool sandwich adapter. The Motor Guard is a little better than the Amsoil BE 100 with a little more filtering capacity. The Motor Guard has the quality and is the least messy to change of any filter I've seen. As far as filtering ability there are probably a dozen scattered around the world that filter about the same.
If your oil is black but feels like new oil and doesn't stain your skin it's OK. I don't spend much on oil analysis. I have Perma-Cool adapters for that Allison automatic for installing a Motor Guard M-30.
The Perma-Cool adapter converts the system to use a 3/4-16 thread filter such as Ford or Chrysler. The advantage to replacing the little spin on is more capacity. The disavantage is too long a filter might get hit by rocks, etc. Transmission fluid can be a lot dirtier than the engine oil even though it looks good on the dipstick. Color can be very misleading. When that white element turns grey you know you are doing some good.
Don't take a GM vehicle back to the dealer for warranty problems with all this extra hardware and Ford filters. Drive the truck awhile to make sure it is OK before installing any non GM products. Don't give them an excuse not to make good on a warranty.
Ralph
Thanks for the great info, everybody!
I have an OilGuard Bypass on my 2003 Duramax ,and with about 3.5kmi since installing it, the oil on the dipstick looks as clean as new (with unloaded highway driving). Even before installing the Bypass Filter, the Dmax had much less visible soot in the oil when compared to my 98 6.5 Chevy Diesel. I understand that the reason for the lower soot levels is the Bosch high-pressure rail injection system used on the Dmax. I'll be doing an oil analysis once the oil hits 4kmi and will post results. For anyone interested, pictures of my OilGuard install are posted at the following link: http://community.webshots.com/user/jbplock
Nice setup, but one question. Why such a small filter? How many quarts does that Duramax hold???quote:
Originally posted by Bill Plock:
I have an OilGuard Bypass on my 2003 Duramax ,and with about 3.5kmi since installing it, the oil on the dipstick looks as clean as new (with unloaded highway driving).
msparks,
I had an Oil Guard on my PSD and changed it to the Gulf Coast Filter. The Oil Guard is sized according to the engine size. The smallest one they make is for the TDI and small passenger vehicles. The unit pictured is for the Ford, GMC and Dodge vehicles and then they go up from there. It is more than adequate for the 10-20 qt sump. The actual filter is about the size of a roll of bathroom tissue.
I opted for the Gulf Coast Filter because it holds 5 quarts of oil and has an extremely large element, using Scott paper towels. Very effective filter and the increased oil capacity is a definite plus. The inital cost is higher but the added capacity and inexpensive filter media is also a plus.
I had an Oil Guard on my PSD and changed it to the Gulf Coast Filter. The Oil Guard is sized according to the engine size. The smallest one they make is for the TDI and small passenger vehicles. The unit pictured is for the Ford, GMC and Dodge vehicles and then they go up from there. It is more than adequate for the 10-20 qt sump. The actual filter is about the size of a roll of bathroom tissue.
I opted for the Gulf Coast Filter because it holds 5 quarts of oil and has an extremely large element, using Scott paper towels. Very effective filter and the increased oil capacity is a definite plus. The inital cost is higher but the added capacity and inexpensive filter media is also a plus.
msparks,
The Duramax holds 10 quarts and the OilGuard I'm using adds about another quart. I added another picture to the link above that shows the oil on the dipstick at 3.2kmiles.
The Duramax holds 10 quarts and the OilGuard I'm using adds about another quart. I added another picture to the link above that shows the oil on the dipstick at 3.2kmiles.
That is pretty awesome for a diesel. I would say that filter is doing a great job!quote:
Originally posted by Bill Plock:
msparks,
I added another picture to the link above that shows the oil on the dipstick at 3.2kmiles.
Msparks,
The OilGuard Bypass and Baldwin B1441 full-flow are doing a good job, but I think the main reason for the absence of visible soot in my oil is the Bosch common rail injection system. The 20k-psi fuel pressure and electronically actuated injectors make the combustion event very efficient. The common rail system produces much less soot compared to a conventional 2-3k psi injection system. When I first heard about how clean the oil looked in a Duramax I had a hard time believing it until I saw it.
http://www.boschusa.com/AutoOrigEquip/Diesel/CommonRailSystem/
The OilGuard Bypass and Baldwin B1441 full-flow are doing a good job, but I think the main reason for the absence of visible soot in my oil is the Bosch common rail injection system. The 20k-psi fuel pressure and electronically actuated injectors make the combustion event very efficient. The common rail system produces much less soot compared to a conventional 2-3k psi injection system. When I first heard about how clean the oil looked in a Duramax I had a hard time believing it until I saw it.
http://www.boschusa.com/AutoOrigEquip/Diesel/CommonRailSystem/
Lenny,
Soot in diesel lube is not "somewhat" normal...it is totally normal.
Don't worry about it. All proper diesel lube oils, and Delvac 1 is one of the best, handle the soot with no worries for you. You're good for the full oil drain interval shown in your owner's manual. With the Delvac 1, you're probably good for twice that oil drain interval, but don't risk your warranty protection.
I've run many industrial diesel engines where the oil turns black an hour after the change. I've recently been running a locomotive engine in a generator application for about five days every two weeks, the oil (Chevron Delo 1000 SAE40) has been in that engine for over two years, the oil is black as black paint, we're using high sulfur fuel, and the lab tests on the oil are still good. Due to the large sump capacity (600 gallons), we won't change the oil until the lab says to do so. And, no bypass filter or centrifuge, only a big full flow filter (eight 3' long, 8" diameter micronic pleated paper elements in one canister).
Ken
Soot in diesel lube is not "somewhat" normal...it is totally normal.
Don't worry about it. All proper diesel lube oils, and Delvac 1 is one of the best, handle the soot with no worries for you. You're good for the full oil drain interval shown in your owner's manual. With the Delvac 1, you're probably good for twice that oil drain interval, but don't risk your warranty protection.
I've run many industrial diesel engines where the oil turns black an hour after the change. I've recently been running a locomotive engine in a generator application for about five days every two weeks, the oil (Chevron Delo 1000 SAE40) has been in that engine for over two years, the oil is black as black paint, we're using high sulfur fuel, and the lab tests on the oil are still good. Due to the large sump capacity (600 gallons), we won't change the oil until the lab says to do so. And, no bypass filter or centrifuge, only a big full flow filter (eight 3' long, 8" diameter micronic pleated paper elements in one canister).
Ken
Hi,
yes managing soot is a real issue with some motors. Especially with the lastest DDEC4> Detroit "environmental" - and other makers - engines. I have had my heavy ( 45000kg ) Interstate trucks on Delvac 1 for some millions of kms over three years. During our OA we ran to 4% soot - Delvac 1 is masterful at handling it
I use an after nmarket Glacier/Mann 600 centrifuge - fitted when new - and Baldwin EF3998 filters.
We have established 100000>kms as our OC limit, oil consunption averages about 6300kms/ltr. The centrifuge recovers abour 220g of soot in that time. The Baldwin filters are like new inside at OC without a trace of soot
We have had valve covers off at 800000kms - clean - almost like new!
Regards
Doug Hillary
Airlie Beach - Tropical North Queensland - Australia
yes managing soot is a real issue with some motors. Especially with the lastest DDEC4> Detroit "environmental" - and other makers - engines. I have had my heavy ( 45000kg ) Interstate trucks on Delvac 1 for some millions of kms over three years. During our OA we ran to 4% soot - Delvac 1 is masterful at handling it
I use an after nmarket Glacier/Mann 600 centrifuge - fitted when new - and Baldwin EF3998 filters.
We have established 100000>kms as our OC limit, oil consunption averages about 6300kms/ltr. The centrifuge recovers abour 220g of soot in that time. The Baldwin filters are like new inside at OC without a trace of soot
We have had valve covers off at 800000kms - clean - almost like new!
Regards
Doug Hillary
Airlie Beach - Tropical North Queensland - Australia
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