If Japanese and Korean companies can potentially get these subsidies, why can't Chinese companies do it?
Will Chinese-built Teslas be eligible or excluded?
Will Chinese-built Teslas be eligible or excluded?
BYD may come to the US via Mexico
- Thread starter BMWTurboDzl
- Start date
Teslas sold in America are built in America. But some of the batteries are not; so those cars do not qualify.
There has been a BYD garage near me in the Bronx for at least 5 years now
Would something like a Renault Duster sell in the US though? I have one with a 1.5 diesel engine and a 6 speed manual box. I love it! Honestly, I had really nice Volvos and BMW's for 6 years prior and I thought I would tire quickly with my Duster but it's just such a no-nonsense fantastic car that's always surprising me. I actually get more people approaching me to ask me questions about the Duster than I ever did my BMW 5 Series that cost me nearly 2.5x what I paid for my Duster 2 years prior.
But I'm not convinced it would sell in the US.
I believe it would. They bring stuff like a manual transmission versa here and it doesn't sell - because no one wants a Versa, then they say no one wants cheep cars.
The Chrysler / Fiat Jeep Renegade sold really, really well initially. Then they figured out that Fiat had screwed up the head gasket on the 2.4l tigershark, and Chrysler screwed up on building the ZF 9 speed, and it became known as a poor quality vehicle and sales plummeted.
It doesn't help that FCA doesn't stand behind anything they sell.
It also doesn't help that they jacked up the price. They start at $29K MSRP now if you can even find one. The FWD version in 2017 was $18K.
You know one thing regarding all brands, how on earth in this day and age do they still have engines where head gaskets fail?
I find it amazing over the last 50 years, they dont have a sure fire way to prevent this and not have a crap shoot?
Wife had a 2002 Nissan Ultima, brand new about 2 or 3 max years later turned into a major headache with the dealer, replacing ignition coils, checking the converter etc. Turned out to be the head gasket, to their credit they credited us back the previous $800 they charged for the stuff it wasnt.
Last Nissan ever, would never again. But it seems like all brands, amazing. Really? head gaskets Im still amazed. Even back in 2002 with the Nissan, think I heard less issues back in 1982
Its typically they don't leave enough room between the cylinders - for space and weight reasons - so the head gasket ends up being too thin. Another reason is they don't dross drill between the cylinders, so the head gasket gets too hot. It usually is the engine design - not the gasket manufacture itself. Its the same old reason as everything - they design them so they can build them the cheapest, they will weigh the least, and they will get the best mileage - at the expense of longevity - which the OEM's really don't want anyway.
JHZR2
Staff member
No there’s not.
There’s a huge population of undereducated, under-skilled people, reliant on the government and/or drugs, that should be working. The HF torque wrench undercut those folks, and therefore is every bit as treacherous as a $B fab.
Of all places, the failure of SF should be a clear indicator to the effect of these folks.
Realizing that around half the population is below average, and still should have something to do and have opportunity. Not every schmuck in nowhere, USA can have a LAM research stock option rags to riches story.
As much as some folks would like this, im not really for your CA comrades compelling you by force any more than they have, to give up your situation for the other guy. But in return if I can buy US made stuff and create opportunities for the next guy, I will. And you should too. Not just sweep it under the rug to save a buck. That WMT/HF culture is what undercut many of these folks decades ago.
JHZR2
Staff member
Which are our allies and which are not?
Frankly I’d prefer to only be US manufacturers (not even sure what that does for Stelantis), with US product and US supply chains. But that’s not my call, and not really suited for discussion here.
I don’t think that’s correct. While I lament the demise of cars and hate the Big 3, the reason small cars got dropped was chiefly due to low demand. Everyone started buying crappy CUVs.
I have to disagree. There’s a massive difference. Wrench and tool production can easily be moved around and there are many potential sources. It’s a simple product and if one supplier plays games another will pop up. Modern leading edge semiconductor fabrication is nearly impossible to move except on a decade scale and requires such specialized machinery and knowledge is it a natural security risk.
I have worked in manufacturing my entire adult life. Right out of engineering school I went to work for a big US manufacturing company. US manufacturers did not leave because they had to pay a machine operator here $20 an hour and the Chinese one makes $2 an hour. Its because here they have to pay health insurance, payroll taxes, liability, workman's comp, regulatory costs, and a host of other costs that don't directly affect the product.
So, either:
1) They should not have to pay these costs here, or
2) whenever a good is imported from a 3rd world place, they should need to pay a tariff that approximates all these other costs, on an average basis per hours of labor input to each good. It sounds complicated but I bet I could come up with a method based on averages, etc.
Then we can compare the US worker to the offshore worker, and let them compete directly. We shall see who wins that one.
If they ever did it, I would bet every dime I could scrape together on the American worker, then I would head immediately to the Grand Cayman to await my winnings.
So, either:
1) They should not have to pay these costs here, or
2) whenever a good is imported from a 3rd world place, they should need to pay a tariff that approximates all these other costs, on an average basis per hours of labor input to each good. It sounds complicated but I bet I could come up with a method based on averages, etc.
Then we can compare the US worker to the offshore worker, and let them compete directly. We shall see who wins that one.
If they ever did it, I would bet every dime I could scrape together on the American worker, then I would head immediately to the Grand Cayman to await my winnings.
We agree on the education point. America does not value education. CA is doing something about that with tuition free Community Colleges.
Not sure what you mean by your Lam comment. Most people don't know anything about SEMI nor do they own stock beyond their 401K. That's lack of education, particularly personal finance. By the way take away my LRCX and I would still be more than fine. Education and Silicon Valley did that.
My point about HF torque wrench vs chip development and manufacture has to do with the level of expertise required as well as importance. There is a huge difference.
Good conversation. I appreciate your thoughts.
As always more competition and offering makes the buying market so much better. Hopefully BYD will try for lower end of market that is lacking and not skip to top end like balance.
BYD is after market share and profit, like any other for-profit company.
Hyundai tried the high profit with genesis brand and more or less failed……Same is true of Nissan with Infiniti .
Hyundai does quite well with lower end and no complaints is trying that end of market yet effectively.
The Big 3 decided they couldn’t make enough money on low margin cars, so they decided to make high margin trucks (& reasonably high margin crappy CUVs/SUVs)-so they basically left the car business to others. The “chicken tax” is a big reason why foreign trucks don’t do as well here on price, protectionism from way back.
JHZR2
Staff member
Of course a fab is far more money and complex. Anyone with half a brain knows that.
The bit about tool production hasn’t panned out so well as one manufacturer after another offshores or gets bought by overseas investment and becomes a Chinese product. So I can’t say I agree with your comment.
And not every person in the country is going to work for semiconductors. There is still a ton of other industry that relies on more basic stuff. That stuff can be made here, or not. The more basic stuff may not need as specialized, qualified, and capable personnel. And, folks with varying levels of skills still need jobs. Or they can be welfare cases. Which is preferable?
Not every job needs community college. Not every person is qualified to even do community college. Not every profession will be even a highly skilled trade, let alone a tradesperson in a fab or high tech.
My point about LAM is that while you have a good rags to riches type story, not everybody will get one. And it’s not even because of a dog eat dog world. Joe schmoe in nowheresville, USA still needs something to do besides drugs and welfare. A diversity of industry, options, etc, is essential. It’s not that the torque wrench itself is the indicator of a valid lower-tier manufacture.
Your point about chips vs torque wrenches makes mine. The level of experience and importance. Not everybody will have the aptitude and ability to do the stuff requiring higher expertise and importance. Should those folks be left to die on drugs? Welfare? Sure seems like more opportunities versus Joe consumer buying the offshore thing to save a buck and then their neighbor’s job goes away is a bad path. That is what’s happened in a lot of our cities and industries…
JHZR2
Staff member
That’s valid. Tariffs should be used to create a level playing field so stuff doesn’t get dumped on the market.
A tariff on every piece of Chinese junk, which goes into our welfare and unemployment system might be a good start.
I like low cost stuff and deals as much as the next person. But when stuff gets dumped from places with absolutely no parity in terms of cost of doing business, or caring for their people, that just rubs me the wrong way. That’s why I have less concern about stuff from Europe, South Korea, Japan, etc.
Any car sold in North America as long as they meet the content requirements of USA sourced parts are fair game for the rebate and why I think BYD is going to Mexico. Cars built outside the free trade zone I am sure do not qualify. Mexico and Canada I think do but have not confirmed.
Similar threads
- Locked
