Buying API pre-approved Oil additives

[Solarent]

Ok a little background to my train of thought....

I know for a fact that Lubrizol, Afton and a couple of other companies that provide additive ingredients to some of the major oil companies also make formulated additive packages that meet current API specs (basically just mix your chosen base oil + additives from lubrizol = API SN Oil). Some oil blenders use these packages with base oil purchased from a base oil supplier to make their oils (Valvoline for example). The average joe wouldn't be able to do this because its just not economical, and the equipment needed for blending is quite extensive.

However, if someone were to make a product from these packages (which contain basically the same ingredients as what's in the oil) available in smaller quantities as an aftermarket additive, do you think there would be a market for it?
(You can't buy it from Lubrizol, except by the drum).

I am guessing that for those who want to extend out their oil life, upping the overall additives (knowing they were the same formulation as the majors) may be beneficial. I know that many of our members don't like the idea of additives, the most common reason being that we shouldn't play backyard chemist. but if the additives you are adding are an API pre-approved SN package, you are only changing the overall ratio of base-oil to additives not messing with the formula of detergents, dispersants, anti-wear components etc?

Thoughts?

 

[Donald]

I am happy to let the people at Amsoil try these things out and do their chemistry thing and test it on an engine other than one of mine.

Doing my own oil changes is one things, blending my own oil is another.

Next we might hear that crude from Alaska makes the best base stock, thus one needs to go to Alaska to get some of the crude, then refine it, then blend it, then use it.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I think someone should package a "do it yourself" oil chemisty build kit that includes: polymethacrylate VII, 4 cst PAO, 6 cst PA,O 9cst PAO, Some ISO 68 POE, ISO 100 POE and some AN and the standard Lubrizol or NipponChemCo ILSAC GF-5 and/or the GF-3 Di package and some 'extra" Ca alkyl phenate or ?? - let the guys have at it and report back some objective and subjective results. What a Christmas/Chanukkah/Eid ul-Fitr/type YOUR holiday here/ Present!

 

[bepperb]

I like the thought. Let's say you can get the exact same additives as a 5 quart bottle of oil and theoretically add those halfway though an OCI to refresh the add pack. There should be a market for that, say for Wisconsin in February when it's too cold to change my oil.

My problems with it as a business is that I can get 5 whole quarts of oil for about 10 bucks. So how much is this bottle going to cost me? And realistically it isn't as good as changing the oil, so it would have to be at most half that. And that brings about the dilemma... your product would do a lot more, for a lot less, than most additives out there. That makes me think that the low sales volume probably makes it impossible to turn a profit on this. You're competing with people turning a million times the volume you are and their better buyers and sales channels.

Really, your problem is honesty. "Turn your oil oil into new~ish dirty oil for five bucks" wouldn't sell as well as "older engines need ZDDP" or "ethanol is killing your engine" or "TEFLON!". Maybe get this product and sell it to import tuners or 70's triumph owners or model airplane guys. Then you could charge 18.99 instead.

 

[dparm]

After hearing MolaKule give his lecture in-person, I have decided that I don't want to mix different brands of oils anymore. Even within the same brand is questionable to me now.

 

[Solarent]

Originally Posted By: dparm
After hearing MolaKule give his lecture in-person, I have decided that I don't want to mix different brands of oils anymore. Even within the same brand is questionable to me now.


This is a really good point. Additive conflict could still occur I suppose, because not everyone uses the same DI pack. I think any type of blending should be done with caution, although some blends have proven effective for certain members.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: dparm
After hearing MolaKule give his lecture in-person, I have decided that I don't want to mix different brands of oils anymore. Even within the same brand is questionable to me now.


Can you summarize what he said?

 

[djb]

Originally Posted By: Donald

Next we might hear that crude from Alaska makes the best base stock, thus one needs to go to Alaska to get some of the crude, then refine it, then blend it, then use it.


That's absurd.

Crude from Pennsylvania makes the best lubricating oil. It's been known for over a century, and it's why many of the best oils had references to Pennsylvania in the name e.g. "Quaker State", "Pennzoil". Sure it's a little waxy and leave varnish, but it provides much better protection than the Texas oil with all of its lighter components.

Plus, western Pennsylvania is much closer and easier to drive to than northern Alaska.

Some folks add Castor Oil and put "Cast" in the name, but that's a little too close to being a vegetarian.


Back to the original topic: my impression was that the base stock had to be highly refined (making it essentially a Group 3 oil) or use a noticeable percentage of synthetic oil to meet recent specs. How can the blender be certain that the product meets specs with a random base stock?

 

[Solarent]

Originally Posted By: djb

Back to the original topic: my impression was that the base stock had to be highly refined (making it essentially a Group 3 oil) or use a noticeable percentage of synthetic oil to meet recent specs. How can the blender be certain that the product meets specs with a random base stock?



When you buy the stuff in bulk the Lubrizol guys give you help with making your formula. (so they help with with the base oil ratios). Most finished oil formulas have at least 2 (in many cases 3-4) base oils to get the finished SAE viscosity range.

That's actually what the API groups were created for - so if a base oil source changes oil blenders have options to change out to a different supplier (its called Base Oil Interchange). You can actually change base oils (within a certain range) and not have to get it retested by the API to keep your certifications. There are several items that oil specs report that actually aren't part of the API service category (viscosity index for example) that many of us mistakenly think are part of the certification program.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: dparm
After hearing MolaKule give his lecture in-person, I have decided that I don't want to mix different brands of oils anymore. Even within the same brand is questionable to me now.


So he gave viable reasons for NOT trusting a 300 V mix of 0W-40 and 0W-20, even with BOTH being Ester Core??

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: djb
Originally Posted By: Donald

Next we might hear that crude from Alaska makes the best base stock, thus one needs to go to Alaska to get some of the crude, then refine it, then blend it, then use it.


That's absurd.

Crude from Pennsylvania makes the best lubricating oil. It's been known for over a century, and it's why many of the best oils had references to Pennsylvania in the name e.g. "Quaker State", "Pennzoil". Sure it's a little waxy and leave varnish, but it provides much better protection than the Texas oil with all of its lighter components.

Plus, western Pennsylvania is much closer and easier to drive to than northern Alaska.

Some folks add Castor Oil and put "Cast" in the name, but that's a little too close to being a vegetarian.


Back to the original topic: my impression was that the base stock had to be highly refined (making it essentially a Group 3 oil) or use a noticeable percentage of synthetic oil to meet recent specs. How can the blender be certain that the product meets specs with a random base stock?







I was facetious and just picked a place with oil far away.

 

[Ken2]

Pennsylvania paraffinic oil made better lubes way back when the only processing was distilling refining. These days some of the best lubes are from converting the wax from oil into base oil and gas-to-liquid base oil.

Chevron Oronite and Infineum (owned by Royal Dutch Shell and ExxonMobil) are two other huge additive suppliers.