Buying a car with a fresh engine swap?

[skate1968]

Any tips about about buying such a cars?

I'm looking to buy an 88 to 95 honda civic.

Is there a way to verify that the engine has "only 99K miles" OR "only 108K miles" on it?

Would the used engine that they bought before swapping come with any kind of paperwork? And would mileage info on that paperwork be reliable? (given the remote chance that the owner even kept the paperwork)

I'm wondering if i have any way of confirming this. Any way other than just taking some guy at his word. Some guy who i don't know who's selling a car.

I have read form one of the experts on honda tech that buying a car with a good engine already swapped in is a good idea.

Also the guys have already given me great advice warning about the great llkelyhood of a particular swap NOT being wired properly. A "VTECH" engine that runs but runs WITHOUT the added VTECH -- a strong engine that's wired to run very weak.

thanks again for all of the feedback

 

[eljefino]

I don't think you'd be getting the best possible deal.

There's a profit motive for the seller to get back his sweat equity. Since he knows he's flipping it, he might do a half baked job as well.

Most buyers (of economy sedans) don't want a story. They just want a car. They don't open hoods or look underneath. They want to hear that the car just got tires and oil changes and has been reliable for you, the seller.

A better buy would be from someone who needs more space for his growing kids or something. Who in their right mind would get rid of a gas saver when gas prices are shooting up?

If you test drive said car, get on it hard, and see if the VTEC kicks in. If you don't know what VTEC feels like, see if the car pleases you.

And for heavens sake, join a honda board that knows these cars specifically.

 

[cchase]

I don't know how Honda handles it but there are typically numbers on the block that will correspond to part of the VIN of the car.

If someone went to a junkyard and swapped an engine, there's no paperwork involved.

 

[skate1968]

Hi elj,

thanks for posting. appreciate your comments.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
A better buy would be from someone who needs more space for his growing kids or something.


Agreed. I liked reading that an owner was selling "because i'm tired of trying to put the babies in a two door."

Originally Posted By: eljefino
And for heavens sake, join a honda board that knows these cars specifically.

I'm already on honda tech. I'm merely posting on this board as well because honda tech tends to be young "boy racer" types wanting pour funds in to their race cars. Less about economy and value.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
If you test drive said car, get on it hard, and see if the VTEC kicks in. If you don't know what VTEC feels like, see if the car pleases you.


I should have mentioned that i was referring to "the guys" meaning the guys at honda tech. They gave me great advice as to what possible problems to look for a particular VTEC "build." Meaning that they could smell something very fishy about this particular car's description before even looking at it.

regards

S

 

[skate1968]

thanks for the feedback, cchase.

 

[Lead Shoes]

There is no way to verify mileage unless he has the title of the other car matching the block vin, I wouldn't worry Honda engines are cheap to rebuild yourself.

Bring a scanner, check for engine codes, check the quality of the wiring and splicing of the harness, make sure it is the proper ECU for the engine swap, not tuned or socket-ed, if it is ask more details on what has been done to the car. Just pay attention to the over all quality put into the car, ask a lot of questions about the build and swap, feel out the seller, their attitude when they talk about the car will give you a good idea of how much they cared about the car and the quality of work they did.

There is a clearly marked engine stamp on the block on the front passenger side of the engine right next to where the transmission and block bolt up, it will say something like B18C1, and the transmission will have a vin tag on it just to the left of that block stamp. On the passenger side of the head on the front face of it about 7 inches above the block stamp, it will have the dials on it showing the casting date of the head and one of the circles will be clearly marked like "95" it will also be stamped p72 on the head, block, and transmission if they are all b18c1 parts, the ECU will also say P72 below the bar code.

Hope those details help, don't settle for a swapped Honda, search for one a fellow enthusiast owned and cared for.


Oh and be ready to bang your head against a wall trying to solve the little quarks that effect everything, long story short, carry a tool box and extra fluids at all time in case you have to do a parking lot fix...

Can you pm me a link to the car add? id like to see it...

 

[skate1968]

Hi Brenden,

Appreciate your post. You're obviously more mechanically inclined than myself.

Originally Posted By: Brenden
...I wouldn't worry Honda engines are cheap to rebuild yourself.


I don't doubt that they are easy enough to rebuild. And i'd guess pre OBD2 are even easier -- if anything.

Someone from a honda forum stated that since they made so many D series engines that they're just not worth rebuilding. So while maybe easy to rebuild they're also enough engines around to just swap in.

One shop quoted me 280 dollars to swap in new engine -- pretty cheap, imo.

regards

skate

 

[Lead Shoes]

It really depends on your plans for the car, id sooner rebuild my d16, have it machined, have the crank balanced, block notched and get a re grind done on the cam by crower and throw in a set of YCP vitara pistons and custom length fj rods and turbo it than swap it to a b18.

You can either spend $250 on another D16 with unknown history and put it in and hope for the best, or get another 200k out of the one in your car for $300-400 for a full refresh inside.

 

[skate1968]

Hi Brenden,

Used JDM parts are reputed to be reliable. Apparently there are a ton of cars junked in Japan with less than 100k. The "clips" -- engine and transmissions -- are shipped over here and resold.

I bought a used jdm transmission for 150 and i LOVE it.

but if you have the mechanincal skills then that, i would imagine, would also be a very good way to go.

regards

s

 

[Lead Shoes]

I have the skills to do it, but I haven't decided if I want turn my nice little 35mpg DD into a sleeper lol...

Where did you get a used JDM transmission for $150 at your door?

 

[skate1968]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
I have the skills to do it, but I haven't decided if I want turn my nice little 35mpg DD into a sleeper lol...

Well, you're not one of those at honda tech wanting to do the quarter in the low teens, are you.

I was just telling them that i'm happy with a "grocery getter," as they call it.

Originally Posted By: Brenden
Where did you get a used JDM transmission for $150 at your door?


I drove from philly to a jdm shop just out of manhattan. forget the name. but they had a 98 99% customer satisfaction rate on ebay. Darn good for a used engine/trans shop!

Well worth if tor me to go the extra drive and get a reliable part before paying several hundred to my mechanic to swap it in. Didn't want to swap in a transmission that was in worse shape than the one being pulled out.

regards

 

[hattaresguy]

Junk yard motors are a shot in the dark, I wouldn't waste my money and time on one.

Cars don't go to the junkyard because they are good, and just about every junkyard will tell you its low miles because unless you see the car it came out of you have no way of knowing. Could be 80k miles, could be 300k miles.

 

[Lead Shoes]

Originally Posted By: skate1968
Originally Posted By: Brenden
I have the skills to do it, but I haven't decided if I want turn my nice little 35mpg DD into a sleeper lol...

Well, you're not one of those at honda tech wanting to do the quarter in the low teens, are you.

I was just telling them that i'm happy with a "grocery getter," as they call it.


Nah I do, I just don't want to do it to my 4dr lx DD, ill probably end up buying a rolling chassis and go from there with my build when I finish school and get a real job

The shipping is what kills those JDM transmissions, I bought one out of a 93 lx for 50 bucks off a Mexican on craigs list, it shifts perfect except for 5th does not like when you throw it in, you have to get it within 1000 rpm of where it will be in gear or it scrapes/grinds, which if you are doing the shifting properly you wont have a problem with it...

I'm neck deep in GM territory in the sticks of MN, every salvage yard within 50 miles says we don't keep Honda's we crush them...

 

[skate1968]

hi hattaresguy,

thanks for responding. i wouldn't pay to have a regular junkyard engine swapped in a car either.

But it's my understanding that the jdm shops do provide engines and transmissions with less than 100k. It's my understanding that because there reaally are soo many of them in Japan that there's no reason for them to lie about mileage. It's also my understanding that very strict inspection laws in japan cause cars to be junk far before their time.

With my transmission swap, I'm one for one so far. knock on wood.

I wouldn't do it again before doing a lot of reasearch -- as i did before.

I'm not a tuner, but i do often value the advice that tuners give me on honda tech.

 

[skate1968]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
The shipping is what kills those JDM transmissions, I bought one out of a 93 lx for 50 bucks off a Mexican on craigs list, it shifts perfect except for 5th does not like when you throw it in, you have to get it within 1000 rpm of where it will be in gear or it scrapes/grinds, which if you are doing the shifting properly you wont have a problem with it...

I'm neck deep in GM territory in the sticks of MN, every salvage yard within 50 miles says we don't keep Honda's we crush them...


Sorry to hear of your bad experience with jdm parts.

I believe that i have an advantage, being from the east coast. We do have some very quality jdm shops out here -- some expensive, but quality. Just drive to the shop and pick em up.

The disadvantage out here is rust.

Good luck with school. I'm far from book smart. But i'm lucky enough to have had some brilliant teachers. Hence i passed the CPA exam.

 

[Lead Shoes]

I wouldn't qualify my 50 dollar transmission as a bad experience, I mean it was 50 dollars lmao... I'm surprised that is the only problem I have with it for 50 dollars, I must have found one of the honest people on CL he said "I don't sell junk," and told me that 5th gear was weaker than the rest but still shifted fine.

All of the other ones on CL were $250+ for 96-2000 transmissions, I got lucky.. I'm searching for a y8/z6 transmission right now to swap this summer when I get bored...

 

[skate1968]

Cool.

Originally Posted By: Brenden
.. I'm searching for a y8/z6 transmission right now to swap this summer when I get bored...


Again, it's a shame you're not on the east coast. I could recommend places that have excellent seller ratings on ebay.

best of luck

 

[skate1968]

bump

Originally Posted By: eljefino
And for heavens sake, join a honda board that knows these cars specifically.

An individual on another forum has strongly urged me to "go away!!!" ...go to some "other forum!" and wished that I had stayed "at [xyz] forum!!!"

But i like to think that ElJef's motives here are far different than those of my adversary's elsewhere.

[sorry for being repetitive and longwinded

]

 

[skate1968]

Bump

Hi folks,

Just wanted to update you all on this topic.

I asked my super fantastic mechanic if he could inspect and confirm a completed swap. Confirm as to whether a swapped engine was installed and wired properly.

"No."

So if he's not up to the task i'm less inclined to approach it myself. Maybe someone on honda tech could confirm proper wiring -- but certainly not easy for me.

again, thanks to all for the feedback.

[Helen & Mods -- i didn't see any policy against "bumping" up a topic. So i went and did it. Again, sincere thanks and appreciation to you all for providing such a useful asset to the public.]

 

[Lead Shoes]

You will not be 100% sure unless you look at all of the spliced ends, and depending on the swap there is anywhere from 6 to 20+

The quickest way to tell is to find all of the engine sensors and see how they are hooked up, generally if you see one splice done with high quality you can assume they followed through on the entire thing. Where you really have to watch is on the ECU where most of the splicing will happen on non vtec to vtec swaps, also if they went from obd2 to 1 with out using a prefab jumper it can be a nightmare of splicing and jumping. If you want to 100% cover all the bases you better start researching the car you are looking at and the engine swap's how to on Honda-Tech.... VERY thoroughly...