Buying 2...on the back always....

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Originally Posted by dareo
ToadU sounds like your doing a great service for the bottom of the car market. How do you get around the sales tax and registration costs? i always thought it would be interesting to run something similar to that here in Utah when my current business becomes obsolete.


Charge sales tax on the rental payments so it's collected weekly. At the end of the "rent to own" agreement the option to buy is $1.00. We charge sales tax on that as well.

Registration, dealer and doc fees paid by the long term renter as is their insurance. The car is registered in their name. Insurance is their responsibility and we require proof. I am not an insurance agent BUT since I sell a lot of cars there is an insurance company I lease space to in the same building as my dealership. So if they need insurance they can walk over. I don't make anything off the insurance that would be illegal bc I'm not licensed to sell insurance. But I do charge rent to the totally independent and not in anyway affiliated w me insurance company.
 
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I've always had new tires put on the front of my FWD cars (if i only buy 2). I'm still alive, never crashed. What an anomaly i must be.

I think you're blowing the danger here way out of proportion.
 
I'm still confused about tire rotations. When does the tire become "old enough" that rotations are allowed, even though you presumably would get the higher tread tires on the front after a rotation?
 
Originally Posted by spavel6
I'm still confused about tire rotations. When does the tire become "old enough" that rotations are allowed, even though you presumably would get the higher tread tires on the front after a rotation?



When they are essentially equal or really close.
 
Originally Posted by JoelB
I've always had new tires put on the front of my FWD cars (if i only buy 2). I'm still alive, never crashed. What an anomaly i must be.

I think you're blowing the danger here way out of proportion.


It's the entire industry. It's an agreed standard based on science. It's a huge safety issue. I know people that drive around w no seatbelts too that are still alive. I still believe seatbelts save lives, believe the science behind it and at least in Florida you as a driver are held liable and can face manslaughter changers for driving a vehicle with the front seat passenger not belted. Kinda how tires work. Same thing with letting passengers ride in the bed of a pick up truck. You as did we could be charged in their death. Lot of people do it. Lot of people just fine. Doesn't make it a safe practice.
 
Originally Posted by ToadU
Originally Posted by spavel6
I'm still confused about tire rotations. When does the tire become "old enough" that rotations are allowed, even though you presumably would get the higher tread tires on the front after a rotation?



When they are essentially equal or really close.


And one more question.. Is it safer to wear all 4 tires out to minimum spec, or replace 2 while leaving the other two if they are within spec?
 
I love how he avoids the questions he can't answer to support the agenda.

Being arrested more than every other month for 25 years would tell me I'm probably doing something wrong, and I should fix my life, but what do I know...
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Oh yeah. Lawyers and lobbying. That's right.
 
Isn't it crazy how almost every industry flip-flops on their own preaching just to make a buck?

Rotate your tires! Keep your car safe! Uneven wear is dangerous!

WAIT! Don't rotate your tires! It's "highly dangerous" to our pocketbook if you don't buy new tires sooner. We want you to wear them out faster by NOT rotating them.

This is purely a "united" "lobbying" scheme to milk customers of more money. Also a colossal waste of rubber by sending perfectly good tires to an early grave. All because people can't think for themselves and/or are scared of lawyers.

It's sad the automotive industry has come to this. A good tech, a good shop, a good salesman/dealer. Heck, even a good manufacturer. All are unicorns these days. All that matters now is picking the least scum-filled agenda and getting scammed the least possible. What do I mean?

A good shop: one that lets you make a completely rational decision to rotate the tires that have 2/32" less tread off of the front axle that is causing the extra wear. Those tires still have 6/32" and 8/32" on them. People drive on tires with 1/32" everyday. But no, that 6/32" on the rear is "highly dangerous."

A good salesman/dealer: one that plans on being there next year and doesn't take you to the cleaners on a car deal. (Good luck!)

A good manufacturer: one that doesn't force you to buy unnecessary bloatware. I don't want a 22" touchscreen, adaptive cruise control, autopilot, 26" rims, and built in wifi that I'll never use. I'd like an option to save $10k and not buy that useless junk that's standard issue now.

But no, everyone thinks they know more than someone else and has to push things down other people's throats. What happened to freedom? What happened to choice? I guess those aren't "best practice"
 
Originally Posted by Pew
Well now I know who never should work on cars.

Originally Posted by OilStasher
^Dave9 and dishdude get it.
thumbsup2.gif
Edit: and geeman789. Don't know how I overlooked that goldmine...

The fact that you turn away business over something so minute is shocking. Not to mention the word-of-mouth cost involved.


If you think 3000 pounds of steel moving at 70mph is a issue small enough to not want to be as safe as possible, I'm sure your local police department/fire department would like a word.
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Okay, so my car with 6/32" on the rear and 8/32" on the front is now worthy of police intervention? Get over yourselves.

Did you check ALL of your lights before driving today? Earlier today? This morning? Yesterday? No? Your local authorities would like a word. Having a burned out light isn't driving around as safely as possible. They can burn out at any second and cause a major accident! Every cop in the world agrees with this practice of checking your lights every single time you drive your car.

See how absurd that sounds? This is common sense people...

Give it 2 or 3 years. They'll find a way to ONLY sell you 4 tires or tell you to have a nice day. You can't buy 2 tires because... reasons.

Customer: "But I just have an unfixable flat tire."
Toad: "FOUR TIRES!"
Customer: "But..."
Toad:

Screenshot_20191219-214546_Gallery.jpg
 
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Originally Posted by OilStasher

Did you check ALL of your lights before driving today? Earlier today? This morning? Yesterday? No? Your local authorities would like a word. Having a burned out light isn't driving around as safely as possible. They can burn out at any second and cause a major accident! Every cop in the world agrees with this practice of checking your lights every single time you drive your car.


Actually, yes I do every single time. And considering the fact that I wake up for work when it's dark out and get home when it's dark out, I can easily tell.

Originally Posted by OilStasher

See how absurd that sounds? This is common sense people...

Give it 2 or 3 years. They'll find a way to ONLY sell you 4 tires or tell you to have a nice day. You can't buy 2 tires because... reasons.

Customer: "But I just have an unfixable flat tire."
Toad: "FOUR TIRES!"
Customer: "But..."
Toad:


Considering the fact that they even tell you if you only buy two tires, put the new ones in the back instead of us refusing you to buy 4 brand new tires, your statement doesn't make sense. If they mandated 4 new tires, then you'd only see them sell in sets of 4. Instead there's no law on what you actually have to buy. Duh?

Not to mention 6/32 compared to 8/32 won't matter much, but 6/32 in the front and a brand new set of 11/32 tires do. If you're one of the few that buys brand new tires with that little of tread depth, then you're one of the few racers/drivers that are exempt.
 
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by OilStasher

Did you check ALL of your lights before driving today? Earlier today? This morning? Yesterday? No? Your local authorities would like a word. Having a burned out light isn't driving around as safely as possible. They can burn out at any second and cause a major accident! Every cop in the world agrees with this practice of checking your lights every single time you drive your car.


Actually, yes I do every single time. And considering the fact that I wake up for work when it's dark out and get home when it's dark out, I can easily tell.

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Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by OilStasher

See how absurd that sounds? This is common sense people...

Give it 2 or 3 years. They'll find a way to ONLY sell you 4 tires or tell you to have a nice day. You can't buy 2 tires because... reasons.

Customer: "But I just have an unfixable flat tire."
Toad: "FOUR TIRES!"
Customer: "But..."
Toad:

Considering the fact that they even tell you if you only buy two tires, put the new ones in the back instead of us refusing you to buy 4 brand new tires, your statement doesn't make sense. If they mandated 4 new tires, then you'd only see them sell in sets of 4. Instead there's no law on what you actually have to buy. Duh?
I think you've confused yourself here. I made perfect sense. You however... Proofreading goes a long way.

Originally Posted by Pew
Not to mention 6/32 compared to 8/32 won't matter much, but 6/32 in the front and a brand new set of 11/32 tires do.
So let me make sure I'm understanding this insane logic correctly. ToadU this applies to you too. You are saying 6/32" on the rear and 11/32" on the front will somehow be unsafe and is highly dangerous (and is not okay to rotate), but another driver with the same vehicle and skill level riding around with 5/32" on the front and 5/32" on the rear is perfectly safe (AND is okay to rotate)?!? Have you completely lost your mind?
 
I can accept the fact that it's safer in most instances to have the new tires on the back. There are clearly independent tests out there showing this.

But if I've got bald tires up front in my fwd car and new ones in back I'm not moving anywhere all winter. Seems pretty unsafe to me to not be able to accelerate away from stop lights in the snow. Or accelerating onto the freeway. Or hit the brakes and have the fronts lock up and start sliding.
 
Originally Posted by OilStasher
So let me make sure I'm understanding this insane logic correctly. ToadU this applies to you too. You are saying 6/32" on the rear and 11/32" on the front will somehow be unsafe and is highly dangerous (and is not okay to rotate), but another driver with the same vehicle and skill level riding around with 5/32" on the front and 5/32" on the rear is perfectly safe (AND is okay to rotate)?!? Have you completely lost your mind?


I've only lost my mind as much as you think you're smarter than the manufactures and the test that prove you're wrong. It's really basics physics I learned in highschool.

popular mechanics

Tire rack

Oh I'd love to see how you refute Michelin


Originally Posted by JoelB

But if I've got bald tires up front in my fwd car and new ones in back I'm not moving anywhere all winter. Seems pretty unsafe to me to not be able to accelerate away from stop lights in the snow. Or accelerating onto the freeway. Or hit the brakes and have the fronts lock up and start sliding.


If a person has bald tires in the winter, they shouldn't even be driving realistically speaking. Owning a car is a responsibility and if the owner doesn't take care of it then they should fully accept the problems and issues that come from the lack thereof.
 
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Originally Posted by JoelB
But if I've got bald tires up front in my fwd car and new ones in back I'm not moving anywhere all winter.

If you've got bald tires and new tires going into winter you're irresponsible and dangerous and it matters not if you're cheap, lazy, or have no money. In spite of what the industry has determined to be best and safest practice we still argue for the opposite. The point isn't that one way is safe and the other is dangerous, it's that one way is less dangerous than the other. New in front and bald in back on slick roads is going to put you backwards so fast you won't have time to say OH [censored].

Originally Posted by JoelB
You are saying 6/32" on the rear and 11/32" on the front will somehow be unsafe and is highly dangerous
Yes absolutely. It's the DIFFERENCE in grip that causes bad handling. Your extreme example of bald/new proves it. And yes the car with 5/32 all around has less traction but the handling is the same. The big concern is handling not traction.

Just because Jose's Tires and Carniceria or Jim Bob's Tire-Bait-Ammo shop will do it doesn't justify it.

But, in spite of almost universal industry agreement you have Michelin saying this:

Quote
Michelin website:
Deeper tread tires on the rear axle provide better handling, wet grip, and evacuate water, thereby helping to avoid oversteer and loss of vehicle stability on wet surfaces. Deeper tread tires on the front axle can improve wet straight line braking and stopping distance. If only two tires are being replaced, Michelin generally recommends they be installed on the rear axle in the absence of a tire service professional's recommendation or consumer's preference to the contrary.


So if you can find a Michelin tire shop maybe you can get the new ones on front. Maybe.

So why would the tire industry have this policy? Afraid of lawsuits? Sure since it's proven new on front is less safe than new on back. Or is there a conspiracy?
 
There are plenty of people out there living paycheck to paycheck. How pompous and ignorant can you be to say that they are lazy and cheap to only put on 2 tires? Sheesh there are some real winners on this board.

The point is, while it may be best practice to put them on the rear, it isn't always the best option.
 
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by OilStasher
So let me make sure I'm understanding this insane logic correctly. ToadU this applies to you too. You are saying 6/32" on the rear and 11/32" on the front will somehow be unsafe and is highly dangerous (and is not okay to rotate), but another driver with the same vehicle and skill level riding around with 5/32" on the front and 5/32" on the rear is perfectly safe (AND is okay to rotate)?!? Have you completely lost your mind?


I've only lost my mind as much as you think you're smarter than the manufactures and the test that prove you're wrong. It's really basics physics I learned in highschool.

popular mechanics

Tire rack

Oh I'd love to see how you refute Michelin


Originally Posted by JoelB

But if I've got bald tires up front in my fwd car and new ones in back I'm not moving anywhere all winter. Seems pretty unsafe to me to not be able to accelerate away from stop lights in the snow. Or accelerating onto the freeway. Or hit the brakes and have the fronts lock up and start sliding.


If a person has bald tires in the winter, they shouldn't even be driving realistically speaking. Owning a car is a responsibility and if the owner doesn't take care of it then they should fully accept the problems and issues that come from the lack thereof.


+++ perfect answer I also posted Michelin test videos. It's just hoe it is. This is right. There is only one safe way to do this. Period. This is black and white and not grey.
 
Nobody has addressed how staggered tires on RWD cars fall under this rule. It's not possible, without buying 2 new rear tires every time they have worn 2/32's more than the front?
 
Originally Posted by OilStasher
I love how he avoids the questions he can't answer to support the agenda.

Being arrested more than every other month for 25 years would tell me I'm probably doing something wrong, and I should fix my life, but what do I know...
21.gif


Oh yeah. Lawyers and lobbying. That's right.


I've answered every single question put forth and been very open. My agenda is safety, doing the right thing, being professional. My concern is your safety because you and many customers just don't have the proper knowledge or care, the safety of others in the road and my own safety on the road. My agenda is protecting my own liability.

My agenda was also to gin up a thread that would have some action. I come here on and off to read and participate because I get bored. It's a hobby. I also feel I have knowledge to share. Most people here think they are smarter than industry experts...which I am one along with others....manufacturers......engineers ect ect ect.

So I get a chuckle and have fun with it.

As far as being arrested it's part of the industry. Every owner of every PPI (private property impound) and non consent company has at least one if not more arrests. Proportionally I believe mine to be less per capita of vehicles impounded but total number much higher owing to volume.

My companies impound thousands and thousands of cars per year. During a single football game we routinely impound 1200 cars at a time. Easy Peasy. We could do more but my lot gets filled up. I run my wreckers 24/7. Have over 250 hidden cameras installed citywide to watch for parking violators...birdhouse cams...little cams here and there...spotters dressed up as homeless looking people, spotters on scooters.....shills. Ect. I have a well oiled machine. You park wrong and my best drivers can have your car snatched on my wrecker in many cases under 4-6 seconds. Oftentimes don't even need to get out of the truck to do it. People park, leave car running, flashers on and run into a store for 2 mins...your car is gone, still running towed to my yard. Flashers on. Engine running. That tends to make people not like me. One truck working alone with a good driver can impound easily 4 cars per hour sometimes more if they driver is lucky and fast. Usually the trucks work as teams with some pulling and others transporting to my yard. (We don't stage that's a felony)

People don't like impound towing people. One of the major State University's we impound near had an online pole a few years ago. Rate murders, serial killers, rapists, child molesters and me personally. I was ranked last. I've had cops tell me to my face they will find a reason to have me in the back of their car with handcuffs. You think I'm dirty you should see what cops do!!!! Even the good ones are still not good but they don't even realize it which is worse than a cop that knows he's dirty.

Like any industry there are good operators and bad ones. I take pride in doing things well. I am a good operator. If I wasn't I would be in jail and convicted. I wouldn't be successful. Every truck has (4) cameras with microphones and an internal hard drive. That means I have proof of every tow so when the owner of the car swears we are lying or even moved their car so we could steal it I have the proof. Keeps my drivers honest. I can pull a live feed from my truck cams on any truck. I GPS track my trucks 24/7. I'm the ONLY impound company has every truck with 4 cameras. I do things right. My trucks are clean inside and out. My drivers as clean cut as possible. At one time I didn't hire with any visible tattoos, no earrings, no long hair and no facial hair. That was a long time ago. Things have changed. Ive had to change to stay in business and be profitable. I still require...men and women and yes I have women impound drivers....to wear long hair under a hat and or tied close to the head. That's for their safety. Have a DUI or criminal record. Can't work for me. Come to my service center and it's clean. Organized. Really really clean. I take pride in what I do. I hang a picture, I use a bubble level.

Now a lot of people call me slimey, scum and horrible things. I am just doing my job. A job that is needed or else I wouldn't be impounding so many vehicles. I don't park the cars. The drivers do that. If they had common sense and could read and pay attention to signs written in 3rd grade English and in some areas Spanish I would go out of business in 24hrs. Fact is they can't. So I get blamed for THEIR actions. Over the years my company has [censored] off a of of people. We have impounded cars belonging to congressman, state and US, sons and daughters of powerful people. Very powerful people's cars. Sports figures...including a Daytona 500 winner. (He was great btw posed for pics and got a kick out of it) They have used everything in their power to shut me down and persecute me.

BTW I have a degree from one of the top 10 public universities in the country. I'm not a dumb redneck like many in this business are I wear a jacket and tie to my office.

Of of the arrests only four times in 25 years have I ever been actually booked at the police station, only three times have the police handcuffed me.....the other time w my lawyer present I turned myself in. (I Explain the other arrests below) Of the four arrests one was a DUI. I was not convicted and took it to a jury trial and was found not guilty. It was straight set-up bc the local police couldn't get me on anything related to towing and the police chief and elected Sheriff during his campaign both made a public pledge to shut my company down. So they went the DUI route. (Get a DUI as an owner of a PPI company and loose your license to impound tow when convicted). Now I like to drink. However, when I am drinking..even a single drink... I always always always have a black car service drive me. Always. Same as when My wife has wine w her friends. Same for when my daughter is in town. She's a target too. If I. Driving myself and decide to drink I have one of my wreckers come and tow my car and call the black car service.

After this DUI hoax and some other things that got out of control I no longer reside in the same city as my companies. I have a pilots license and own a plane and I fly myself to the cities where I operate and rotate what cars I keep at the airport to drive when I'm in town or use black cars. I moved after I had to hire armed security for my house when an irresponsible newspaper plastered the picture of my house and it's address on the front page with a headline to the effect the house roam towing built. At the time I had to have security take my daughter to school and watch her. I own a pair of imported, Schutzhund, bite trained to police level German Shepherds. My wife doesn't go anywhere without at least one dog with her and often both. I frequently take one in my plane w me and to the office. They take their commands only in German and Chech. Very lovable dogs and kids to me but necessary protection. I even have bulletproof vests for them.

I have lost count how many times I have been shot at. (I don't drive my wreckers anymore. Too old. But was on the front line for years) I have fired my own concealed carry on three occasions, twice hitting the assailant. Twice I have had hot coffee poured on me. Lost count of spitting. Was urinated on once. Have been bitten. Punched. So many times. Choked. Had two thugs about 18 years ago put 26 bullets into my office. I returned fire but learned a revolver was a poor choice. One is dead. The other still in jail. (I ran out of bullets) I have a much better concealed carry now with more bullets, bulletproof glass at my office and 24/7 armed police security I pay for. I always keep a real armed law enforcement officer at my impound yards. (Now) (State trooper or Fish and Game...local cops don't like me)

One arrest w handcuffs was after the state raided my office.

All of the other arrests technically are arrests but are all paperwork. In Florida you can be arrested without being taken Into custody. Many...most...of those arrests are sworn complaints. Florida has a crappy system where...and this happens all the time time. ALL the time.....one of my drivers impounds your car. You call 911. Officer responds. He tells you it's a civil matter and no crime occurred. You insist I be arrested because we stole your car. Officer by law must give your the forms and opportunity to file a sworn complaint. You fill out a 1 page form. I as the owner and my driver get read our rights and informed we have had a sworn complaint filed and have been arrested. That complaint goes to State Atty office for prosecution. Neither I or my driver gets hauled into a cruiser or handcuffed. If I'm not at my tow office...which I hardly am anymore...I get a certified letter mailed I am the subject of a sworn complaint and essentially arrested on paper.

That happens to me weekly. Just part of the business.

I have a 100 percent clean record. I have never pleaded to anything. Never will plead. Never accepted a lesser charge. Won everytime. Three grand jury's did not indict me and keep in mind people hate me and on these juries always someone I have impounded. Always. So if I was even a tiny bit guilty I would be convicted of something. I have a concealed carry in two states. No record.

Three times my company did violate a technical city ordinance and I paid $150 each occurrence for those violations which were clerical errors and non criminal.

Finally the Lobbyist and lawyer comment. Darn right I have good lawyers and lobbyists. I keep a legal team on retainer. Jose Biaz was for years my lead criminal defense lawyer. After he won the Casey Anthony trial had to change bc now he just writes books and doesn't personally represent clients. The guy is a pit bull on a pork chop.

The people against me.. everyone I have towed and and their sympathizers....many power people...are all lobbyists against me. So it's only fair I have mine for me. Same with lawyers. I have the brunt of law enforcement and prosecutors working for the government with unlimited time and funds. Even though I can afford the best lawyers and have them my best doesn't pale in comparison to what the government can bring to bear. So someone tell me why I wouldn't have these people on my side? I'm still the little guy when it comes to the Gov-ment.
 
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Originally Posted by JoelB
There are plenty of people out there living paycheck to paycheck. How pompous and ignorant can you be to say that they are lazy and cheap to only put on 2 tires? Sheesh there are some real winners on this board.

The point is, while it may be best practice to put them on the rear, it isn't always the best option.


Comprehension. Too lazy, cheap, OR have no money. You combined them not me. Too lazy to rotate and keep the wear even. Too cheap to buy 4 has nothing to do with living paycheck to paycheck. Tires are wearing out, if you can find a way to buy 2 with some planning you can buy 4, maybe buy 4 used that are better than what you have? A person has no right to put the public in danger because they have little money. You can retract the pompous and ignorant bit anytime.
 
Originally Posted by JoelB
I can accept the fact that it's safer in most instances to have the new tires on the back. There are clearly independent tests out there showing this.

But if I've got bald tires up front in my fwd car and new ones in back I'm not moving anywhere all winter. Seems pretty unsafe to me to not be able to accelerate away from stop lights in the snow. Or accelerating onto the freeway. Or hit the brakes and have the fronts lock up and start sliding.

These were my thoughts as well when I was introduced to the world of front wheel drive in 1982. I really enjoyed having the front wheels pull my car through the snow with the weight up front and the added benefit of steering the drive tires.

Except I don't agree with Joel's last sentence. At higher speeds it's been shown you'd rather have the front wheels skid than the rear wheels, which can put you in a spin.
 
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