Currently Im running mobil 1 10w30 in my supra, with about 138,ooo miles on it. My rings are worn a little, and its burning some oil under hard acceleration. Its definitly due to the bad rings, and I just replaced my valve seals, so its not those. Anyway, would running a thicker weight help keep the oil behind the rings? Also, are there any good additives I can add to help reduce the consumption?
burning oil, need some help
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What year Supra do you have? Turbo/NA?
Its an 87 7mge NA. Its going through about 1 quart every 80 miles or so, not exactly sure because I never really looked.
Last night I went to autozone and got some more oil to put in, and also picked up this additive called 'Rislone Ring Seal' and thought, well it couldnt hurt, and now, after running about 30 miles today, and 15 last night, no oil consumption and decreased blowby (according to the catch can) so I think that stuff really helped.
also, sorry for being a noob, but whats OCI, auto-rx, and this LC soak?
[ December 31, 2004, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: hoser813 ]
Last night I went to autozone and got some more oil to put in, and also picked up this additive called 'Rislone Ring Seal' and thought, well it couldnt hurt, and now, after running about 30 miles today, and 15 last night, no oil consumption and decreased blowby (according to the catch can) so I think that stuff really helped.
also, sorry for being a noob, but whats OCI, auto-rx, and this LC soak?
[ December 31, 2004, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: hoser813 ]
Hoser could there be a pcv problem? Or a manifold leak causing oil to be sucked in ? I'm not familar with your engine. 1 QT in 80 miles is a LOT of consumption. Just trying to eliminate the obvious and expensive suspects, rings,pistons etc.The Rislone product is an oil thickener which would reduce oil consumption caused by a number of problems related to excessive clearances and or intake vacuum leakage to the crankcase. Does it spark knock at wide open throttle (WOT). What RPM under hard acceleration? Blue smoke? If so more or less smoke after warm up? Happy New Year... Rickey.
i dont think there is a pcv problem, and it runs healthy, but it seemed to smoke at WOT at 4000 to redline. I havent ran it hard since adding the rislone, but we will see how it goes.
How would I know if there is a pcv problem? The catch can seems to have good vacuum.
How would I know if there is a pcv problem? The catch can seems to have good vacuum.
Wouldn't a car that's doing 80 miles to a quart be a total crop duster? Looking like the worst Mitsu 3.0 you can imagine?
Time to borrow or buy a compression tester, perhaps, and see whether it's uniform of just one awful cylinder. What do the plugs say?
[ December 31, 2004, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: NEPA_Z ]
Time to borrow or buy a compression tester, perhaps, and see whether it's uniform of just one awful cylinder. What do the plugs say?
[ December 31, 2004, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: NEPA_Z ]
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You've got a catch can that isn't showing any accumulated oil ..and you're producing a cloud of blue smoke? Something doesn't add up. If your rings are shot ..you've got blowby. Blowby must enter the intake side of the engine ..or get vented somewhere. If your catch can is empty and has good vacuum then you don't have any blowby production in excess of your engine's abilty to soak it up. This is unlikely to show itself in the manner that you describe if it were shot rings. You report no pinging ...or fouled plugs.
Is there anything that you left out
Is there anything that you left out
Auto-Rx is a "Soft Flush" that uses a Special Esters to produce cleaning instead of a Solvent. The car is driven while it is in it. It can often free stuck rings and improve ring seal from removal of carbon build up. They are a site sponsor and many here have had good results with there product.
Also a 15w40 HDEO (Heavy Duty Engine Oil) such as Chevron Delo 400, Mobil Delvac 1300, and Shell Rotella T can often decrease oil usage because of increased viscosity and reduced volatility.
However I dont really like to do routine starts below 15°F or any start below 0°F with 15w40. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 ($12.88 gal - Wal-Mart) might be the cheapest alternative that works in your climate.
However if it is really using a Qt every 80 mi you have a major problem. Your Cat is not going to last long.
PS OCI = Oil Change Interval
Gene
[ December 31, 2004, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: Gene K ]
Also a 15w40 HDEO (Heavy Duty Engine Oil) such as Chevron Delo 400, Mobil Delvac 1300, and Shell Rotella T can often decrease oil usage because of increased viscosity and reduced volatility.
However I dont really like to do routine starts below 15°F or any start below 0°F with 15w40. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 ($12.88 gal - Wal-Mart) might be the cheapest alternative that works in your climate.
However if it is really using a Qt every 80 mi you have a major problem. Your Cat is not going to last long.
PS OCI = Oil Change Interval
Gene
[ December 31, 2004, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: Gene K ]
Gary if his oil rings were stuck,worn,or broken and compression rings were ok (admittedly not a likely situation) then blue smoke with little blowby is possible. Oil fouling and pinging would still be a potential problem though. I have personally saw this (stuck oil rings with good compression test) proven on an engine teardown. The oil rings were literally stuck to the piston,this appearently from neglect. The auto rx or other cleaner or even a ring soak would be worth a try here in my opinion.
I have an '89 7M-GE so I think I can relate. They are bulletproof engines with an Achilles heel, namely the head gasket. Now some background, and then on to your problem.
These engines use oil from the get-go, more or less depending on several variables but mostly on how hard it's driven. An engine in good condition can use as much as a quart/1000 miles, sometimes even more, again dependent on several variables. I managed to go 5,000 miles/quart by using Castrol Syntec 5w50. Although, using an oil this viscous might not be the best way to go as far as using horsepower to pump oil, it is one solution if you live in a warmer climate and don't want to check your oil every time you fill up for gas. Knowing what I know now, I'll probably see if I can find something no more viscous than a SAE 40 (xW-40) that doesn't promote high oil consumption. I'm testing Mobil Delvac 1300S 15w40 presently.
Assuming your engine is almost identical to mine, there is no PCV valve. The crankcase gases are just vented via tubing from the top of the cam covers to the intake track before the throttle valve. If you have a catch can, either they changed the design or you added it yourself. Although this is an unusual design, it has presented no problems over the 16 years I've owned it.
If your engine is using as much oil as you say, it may be due to leaks and/or consumption. Given it's age, there's a good possibility the oil seals on the valve guide bushings are shot and/or the rings/cylinder walls are worn/damaged, or if you're lucky, the rings are just stuck. Assuming the oil seals are good and installed correctly, you're suspicion of the rings/pistons/cylinder walls seems correct.
As mentioned before, you could be leaking oil too. The numerous oil seals in the engine tend to get brittle over many years and start to leak. You leaving any oil on the ground or is there a coating on the back of the engine and transmission?
Finally, an AutoRX treatment is probably in order if this engine is old and has over 100K miles on it. You also just might get lucky and have the rings packs cleaned up and unstuck, and the other oil seals rejuvenated enough to cut oil consumption substantially.
[ January 01, 2005, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
These engines use oil from the get-go, more or less depending on several variables but mostly on how hard it's driven. An engine in good condition can use as much as a quart/1000 miles, sometimes even more, again dependent on several variables. I managed to go 5,000 miles/quart by using Castrol Syntec 5w50. Although, using an oil this viscous might not be the best way to go as far as using horsepower to pump oil, it is one solution if you live in a warmer climate and don't want to check your oil every time you fill up for gas. Knowing what I know now, I'll probably see if I can find something no more viscous than a SAE 40 (xW-40) that doesn't promote high oil consumption. I'm testing Mobil Delvac 1300S 15w40 presently.
Assuming your engine is almost identical to mine, there is no PCV valve. The crankcase gases are just vented via tubing from the top of the cam covers to the intake track before the throttle valve. If you have a catch can, either they changed the design or you added it yourself. Although this is an unusual design, it has presented no problems over the 16 years I've owned it.
If your engine is using as much oil as you say, it may be due to leaks and/or consumption. Given it's age, there's a good possibility the oil seals on the valve guide bushings are shot and/or the rings/cylinder walls are worn/damaged, or if you're lucky, the rings are just stuck. Assuming the oil seals are good and installed correctly, you're suspicion of the rings/pistons/cylinder walls seems correct.
As mentioned before, you could be leaking oil too. The numerous oil seals in the engine tend to get brittle over many years and start to leak. You leaving any oil on the ground or is there a coating on the back of the engine and transmission?
Finally, an AutoRX treatment is probably in order if this engine is old and has over 100K miles on it. You also just might get lucky and have the rings packs cleaned up and unstuck, and the other oil seals rejuvenated enough to cut oil consumption substantially.
[ January 01, 2005, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
no Im still getting accumulation in the catch can, only not as much as I was. In about 2 weeks time, it was almost full. Now that I added that stuff, its not accumulating as fast.quote:
Originally posted by Gary Allan:
You've got a catch can that isn't showing any accumulated oil ..and you're producing a cloud of blue smoke? Something doesn't add up. If your rings are shot ..you've got blowby. Blowby must enter the intake side of the engine ..or get vented somewhere. If your catch can is empty and has good vacuum then you don't have any blowby production in excess of your engine's abilty to soak it up. This is unlikely to show itself in the manner that you describe if it were shot rings. You report no pinging ...or fouled plugs.
Is there anything that you left out
I just recently had a valve job done, along with a properly torqued down headgasket. And again, I just threw out the one quart evry 80 miles. I really have no idea, since I never really took the time to check the mileage. Its not that much now that I think of it, but the oil level was noticeably dropping.
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Now this makes a little more sense. You do have oil getting pushed into the intake side from the crankcase. It probably increased after the valve job. You've tightened up the top end and the weakest link is the rings.
Do the Auto-Rx treatment and fill your head with good thoughts for two treatments.
Beyond that, to reduce consumption, why not rig the drain on your catch can to drain back to the valve cover? Just use a very small diameter hose and make it of enough length so that it presents enough resistance during the engine on cycles. When you shut it off, it drains back to the engine (there are other things you can do to allow this to be automatic)
Do the Auto-Rx treatment and fill your head with good thoughts for two treatments.
Beyond that, to reduce consumption, why not rig the drain on your catch can to drain back to the valve cover? Just use a very small diameter hose and make it of enough length so that it presents enough resistance during the engine on cycles. When you shut it off, it drains back to the engine (there are other things you can do to allow this to be automatic)
I'm with Gary Allen - this makes much more sense, I have an engine (250K) that doesn't consume much oil - but yes blow-by is expected. Tightening down the top end, sadly, makes it worse.
As mentioned that is some huge oil consumption even if 1 qt per 800 miles. You should monitor it, just get a little note pad or something.
To the point of really getting to the nitty gritty root cause - first make sure everything is OK on the outside of the engine (breathing and exhaust wise) and the engine is in 100% top tune (what do your plugs look like?).
Then, beating a dead horse, do a double AutoRx treatment and follow the instructions perfectly - it seems to be finicky for some cars and if you don't follow the instructions you'll get a bunch of flack.
Lastly - if it really is mechanical wear, all of the above is still worth the relatively small cash outlay - if it works - HEY problem solved!
As for oil choice - yes increased viscosity may help true consumption but it is a trade-off for possible increased wear. I personally have no issue with SYNTHETIC 15w40 for cooler climates or 5W-40 for cold. Switch after you do the above.
As mentioned that is some huge oil consumption even if 1 qt per 800 miles. You should monitor it, just get a little note pad or something.
To the point of really getting to the nitty gritty root cause - first make sure everything is OK on the outside of the engine (breathing and exhaust wise) and the engine is in 100% top tune (what do your plugs look like?).
Then, beating a dead horse, do a double AutoRx treatment and follow the instructions perfectly - it seems to be finicky for some cars and if you don't follow the instructions you'll get a bunch of flack.
Lastly - if it really is mechanical wear, all of the above is still worth the relatively small cash outlay - if it works - HEY problem solved!
As for oil choice - yes increased viscosity may help true consumption but it is a trade-off for possible increased wear. I personally have no issue with SYNTHETIC 15w40 for cooler climates or 5W-40 for cold. Switch after you do the above.
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