since penzoil ultra seems to b gone, i am trying to decide between amsoil and penzoil platinum. i am being told that amsoil has a higher burn off rate than other oils. any truth to this? tks all
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Originally Posted By: hemitruck
since penzoil ultra seems to b gone, i am trying to decide between amsoil and penzoil platinum. i am being told that amsoil has a higher burn off rate than other oils. any truth to this? tks all
Who is telling your that amsoil burns off? Do you mean in an engine that burns oil? or are you talking about its volatility in general? Both are good oils.
since penzoil ultra seems to b gone, i am trying to decide between amsoil and penzoil platinum. i am being told that amsoil has a higher burn off rate than other oils. any truth to this? tks all
Who is telling your that amsoil burns off? Do you mean in an engine that burns oil? or are you talking about its volatility in general? Both are good oils.
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Amsoil signature has excellent Noack results like Pennzoil ultra but Pennzoil Platinum will beat Amsoil OE. All are under 15%though so I don't think this is important for your application. Noack tests are done at much higher temperatures than your oil will probably ever see, so it's not something I would focus on.
I run PP with a fairly low NOACK value because I drive one of the earlier DI model engines.
It'd have to get pretty hot to burn off I'd say.
Check out PQI America for VOA NOACK's
Check out PQI America for VOA NOACK's
Amsoil Signature 10w30 has a NOACK of 5.3%. Exceptionally low.
Amoil OE series does typically have a higher NOACK than top synthetics, but its not their top product so it's obviously going to be weaker. All are under 15% with most good products falling in the 10% +/- 2% range, so its splitting hairs.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
In this 5w30 VOA comparison you can see that Amsoil OE has a NOACK of 10.9% while QSUD is 8.8% , PU is 6.6% and PP is 9.3%. Some are worse than OE, but with the exception of Lucas and CAM2 the worst is Havoline at 13% while most are even lower.
Once again we are focusing on one test that shouldn't even be a major factor in a 5.7 hemi since its not direct injection.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
In this 5w30 VOA comparison you can see that Amsoil OE has a NOACK of 10.9% while QSUD is 8.8% , PU is 6.6% and PP is 9.3%. Some are worse than OE, but with the exception of Lucas and CAM2 the worst is Havoline at 13% while most are even lower.
Once again we are focusing on one test that shouldn't even be a major factor in a 5.7 hemi since its not direct injection.
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tks all.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Amoil OE series does typically have a higher NOACK than top synthetics, but its not their top product so it's obviously going to be weaker. All are under 15% with most good products falling in the 10% +/- 2% range, so its splitting hairs.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
In this 5w30 VOA comparison you can see that Amsoil OE has a NOACK of 10.9% while QSUD is 8.8% , PU is 6.6% and PP is 9.3%. Some are worse than OE, but with the exception of Lucas and CAM2 the worst is Havoline at 13% while most are even lower.
Once again we are focusing on one test that shouldn't even be a major factor in a 5.7 hemi since its not direct injection.
NOACK is not only important in a DI engine. Perhaps it is a MORE important trait where DI is concerned, but less oil huffed up the PCV system in any engine is going to be of benefit in terms of intake tract cleanliness, PCV system life...etc.
Amoil OE series does typically have a higher NOACK than top synthetics, but its not their top product so it's obviously going to be weaker. All are under 15% with most good products falling in the 10% +/- 2% range, so its splitting hairs.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
In this 5w30 VOA comparison you can see that Amsoil OE has a NOACK of 10.9% while QSUD is 8.8% , PU is 6.6% and PP is 9.3%. Some are worse than OE, but with the exception of Lucas and CAM2 the worst is Havoline at 13% while most are even lower.
Once again we are focusing on one test that shouldn't even be a major factor in a 5.7 hemi since its not direct injection.
NOACK is not only important in a DI engine. Perhaps it is a MORE important trait where DI is concerned, but less oil huffed up the PCV system in any engine is going to be of benefit in terms of intake tract cleanliness, PCV system life...etc.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Amoil OE series does typically have a higher NOACK than top synthetics, but its not their top product so it's obviously going to be weaker. All are under 15% with most good products falling in the 10% +/- 2% range, so its splitting hairs.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
In this 5w30 VOA comparison you can see that Amsoil OE has a NOACK of 10.9% while QSUD is 8.8% , PU is 6.6% and PP is 9.3%. Some are worse than OE, but with the exception of Lucas and CAM2 the worst is Havoline at 13% while most are even lower.
Once again we are focusing on one test that shouldn't even be a major factor in a 5.7 hemi since its not direct injection.
NOACK is not only important in a DI engine. Perhaps it is a MORE important trait where DI is concerned, but less oil huffed up the PCV system in any engine is going to be of benefit in terms of intake tract cleanliness, PCV system life...etc.
That's true, but remember it wasn't that many years ago when the allowable NOACK percentage of an API oil was 25%! Now it's down to
If you're not seeing oil temp's consistently well above 100C I wouldn't give NOACK too much importance in your final choice of a motor oil.
For DI applications, the TEOST deposit test results (if you can get them) would be more relevant plus choosing a mid or low SAPS oil.
It is the baked-on atomized oil deposits in the intake tract that is the main issue in some DI engines.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Amoil OE series does typically have a higher NOACK than top synthetics, but its not their top product so it's obviously going to be weaker. All are under 15% with most good products falling in the 10% +/- 2% range, so its splitting hairs.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
In this 5w30 VOA comparison you can see that Amsoil OE has a NOACK of 10.9% while QSUD is 8.8% , PU is 6.6% and PP is 9.3%. Some are worse than OE, but with the exception of Lucas and CAM2 the worst is Havoline at 13% while most are even lower.
Once again we are focusing on one test that shouldn't even be a major factor in a 5.7 hemi since its not direct injection.
NOACK is not only important in a DI engine. Perhaps it is a MORE important trait where DI is concerned, but less oil huffed up the PCV system in any engine is going to be of benefit in terms of intake tract cleanliness, PCV system life...etc.
That's true, but remember it wasn't that many years ago when the allowable NOACK percentage of an API oil was 25%! Now it's down to
If you're not seeing oil temp's consistently well above 100C I wouldn't give NOACK too much importance in your final choice of a motor oil.
For DI applications, the TEOST deposit test results (if you can get them) would be more relevant plus choosing a mid or low SAPS oil.
It is the baked-on atomized oil deposits in the intake tract that is the main issue in some DI engines.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Amoil OE series does typically have a higher NOACK than top synthetics, but its not their top product so it's obviously going to be weaker. All are under 15% with most good products falling in the 10% +/- 2% range, so its splitting hairs.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
In this 5w30 VOA comparison you can see that Amsoil OE has a NOACK of 10.9% while QSUD is 8.8% , PU is 6.6% and PP is 9.3%. Some are worse than OE, but with the exception of Lucas and CAM2 the worst is Havoline at 13% while most are even lower.
Once again we are focusing on one test that shouldn't even be a major factor in a 5.7 hemi since its not direct injection.
NOACK is not only important in a DI engine. Perhaps it is a MORE important trait where DI is concerned, but less oil huffed up the PCV system in any engine is going to be of benefit in terms of intake tract cleanliness, PCV system life...etc.
That's true, but remember it wasn't that many years ago when the allowable NOACK percentage of an API oil was 25%! Now it's down to
If you're not seeing oil temp's consistently well above 100C I wouldn't give NOACK too much importance in your final choice of a motor oil.
For DI applications, the TEOST deposit test results (if you can get them) would be more relevant plus choosing a mid or low SAPS oil.
It is the baked-on atomized oil deposits in the intake tract that is the main issue in some DI engines.
True, but on a site where we obsess about these tiny differences, I did feel obligated to point out that this (reduction of intake tract deposits) is generally considered a benefit of a low-NOACK lubricant
I like to look back at my experience with Ford Windsor engines which seem to love, in EEC-IV trim, to get a nice film of goodness on the intake runners, inside the throttle body...etc. In my experience, utilizing a low NOACK lubricant (M1 0w-40 @ 8.8%) led to a SIGNIFICANT reduction in this trait.
The same observation can be made with respect to the Ford Modular engines, which vent the PCV into the intake, and the vent right at the throttle body, which leads to the throttle blade sticking and requires a cleaning of the throttle body. I've discovered that low-NOACK oils (M1 0w-40, AZO 0w-30) lead to having to clean the throttle body far less frequently.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Amoil OE series does typically have a higher NOACK than top synthetics, but its not their top product so it's obviously going to be weaker. All are under 15% with most good products falling in the 10% +/- 2% range, so its splitting hairs.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
In this 5w30 VOA comparison you can see that Amsoil OE has a NOACK of 10.9% while QSUD is 8.8% , PU is 6.6% and PP is 9.3%. Some are worse than OE, but with the exception of Lucas and CAM2 the worst is Havoline at 13% while most are even lower.
Once again we are focusing on one test that shouldn't even be a major factor in a 5.7 hemi since its not direct injection.
NOACK is not only important in a DI engine. Perhaps it is a MORE important trait where DI is concerned, but less oil huffed up the PCV system in any engine is going to be of benefit in terms of intake tract cleanliness, PCV system life...etc.
That's true, but remember it wasn't that many years ago when the allowable NOACK percentage of an API oil was 25%! Now it's down to
If you're not seeing oil temp's consistently well above 100C I wouldn't give NOACK too much importance in your final choice of a motor oil.
For DI applications, the TEOST deposit test results (if you can get them) would be more relevant plus choosing a mid or low SAPS oil.
It is the baked-on atomized oil deposits in the intake tract that is the main issue in some DI engines.
True, but on a site where we obsess about these tiny differences, I did feel obligated to point out that this (reduction of intake tract deposits) is generally considered a benefit of a low-NOACK lubricant
I like to look back at my experience with Ford Windsor engines which seem to love, in EEC-IV trim, to get a nice film of goodness on the intake runners, inside the throttle body...etc. In my experience, utilizing a low NOACK lubricant (M1 0w-40 @ 8.8%) led to a SIGNIFICANT reduction in this trait.
The same observation can be made with respect to the Ford Modular engines, which vent the PCV into the intake, and the vent right at the throttle body, which leads to the throttle blade sticking and requires a cleaning of the throttle body. I've discovered that low-NOACK oils (M1 0w-40, AZO 0w-30) lead to having to clean the throttle body far less frequently.
Yes but it the case of M1 0W-40 is that not due more to the fact that M1 is know to be a clean burning oil?
In that Asmoil test of 5w30 syn oils a while back the oil with the lowest TEOST deposit score (IIRC Castrol Edge) had just an average NOACK value. Red Line which has a very low NOACK did not score so well (I need not remind you of buster's OTT reaction to that).
So yes there may be a connection between NOACK and intake deposits but it is not the bottom line.
NOACK is more important if you are seeing very high oil temp's on a regular basis where is can contribute to higher oil consumption and oil thickening.
That said, I'd choose an oil with a lower NOACK value all other attributes being equal but they rarely are. Consequently, as long as the NOACK is reasonable it's not at the top of my list of attributes I consider in choosing a motor oil.
In that Asmoil test of 5w30 syn oils a while back the oil with the lowest TEOST deposit score (IIRC Castrol Edge) had just an average NOACK value. Red Line which has a very low NOACK did not score so well (I need not remind you of buster's OTT reaction to that).
So yes there may be a connection between NOACK and intake deposits but it is not the bottom line.
NOACK is more important if you are seeing very high oil temp's on a regular basis where is can contribute to higher oil consumption and oil thickening.
That said, I'd choose an oil with a lower NOACK value all other attributes being equal but they rarely are. Consequently, as long as the NOACK is reasonable it's not at the top of my list of attributes I consider in choosing a motor oil.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes but it the case of M1 0W-40 is that not due more to the fact that M1 is know to be a clean burning oil?
In that Asmoil test of 5w30 syn oils a while back the oil with the lowest TEOST deposit score (IIRC Castrol Edge) had just an average NOACK value. Red Line which has a very low NOACK did not score so well (I need not remind you of buster's OTT reaction to that).
So yes there may be a connection between NOACK and intake deposits but it is not the bottom line.
NOACK is more important if you are seeing very high oil temp's on a regular basis where is can contribute to higher oil consumption and oil thickening.
That said, I'd choose an oil with a lower NOACK value all other attributes being equal but they rarely are. Consequently, as long as the NOACK is reasonable it's not at the top of my list of attributes I consider in choosing a motor oil.
I'm just basing this on my experience with the aforementioned lubricants, which we know have low NOACK scores. At the time, I had no idea as to the TEOST test data (that's a far more recent contribution to the board) but I'm certainly willing to acknowledge that this was likely a contributing factor in retrospect based on the data presented. The Windsors have no oil coolers, so I'm thinking sump temp is going to be higher than on the Expedition, which has an oil cooler, massive three-row rad...etc.
That Redline TEOST result was certainly interesting and caused a lot of commotion. The discussions on that were interesting to say the least
It would be nice if oil PDS's were more detailed and contained information like that. Some of the PDS's (like Castrol's) are essentially useless, which makes it difficult to compare the properties to each other without some other 3rd party source for the data (like the AMSOIL example you cited).
I would also add that consumption was reduced (in some cases eliminated) with the M1 0w-40 in the Windsors, so I'm thinking volatility was indeed an issue. The Expedition has only consumed on the AZO (go figure), and didn't on M1 0w-40, AFE 0w30 (which is in it right now, still on the full line....) so this begs more questions than it brings answers on the Modular
Yes but it the case of M1 0W-40 is that not due more to the fact that M1 is know to be a clean burning oil?
In that Asmoil test of 5w30 syn oils a while back the oil with the lowest TEOST deposit score (IIRC Castrol Edge) had just an average NOACK value. Red Line which has a very low NOACK did not score so well (I need not remind you of buster's OTT reaction to that).
So yes there may be a connection between NOACK and intake deposits but it is not the bottom line.
NOACK is more important if you are seeing very high oil temp's on a regular basis where is can contribute to higher oil consumption and oil thickening.
That said, I'd choose an oil with a lower NOACK value all other attributes being equal but they rarely are. Consequently, as long as the NOACK is reasonable it's not at the top of my list of attributes I consider in choosing a motor oil.
I'm just basing this on my experience with the aforementioned lubricants, which we know have low NOACK scores. At the time, I had no idea as to the TEOST test data (that's a far more recent contribution to the board) but I'm certainly willing to acknowledge that this was likely a contributing factor in retrospect based on the data presented. The Windsors have no oil coolers, so I'm thinking sump temp is going to be higher than on the Expedition, which has an oil cooler, massive three-row rad...etc.
That Redline TEOST result was certainly interesting and caused a lot of commotion. The discussions on that were interesting to say the least
It would be nice if oil PDS's were more detailed and contained information like that. Some of the PDS's (like Castrol's) are essentially useless, which makes it difficult to compare the properties to each other without some other 3rd party source for the data (like the AMSOIL example you cited).
I would also add that consumption was reduced (in some cases eliminated) with the M1 0w-40 in the Windsors, so I'm thinking volatility was indeed an issue. The Expedition has only consumed on the AZO (go figure), and didn't on M1 0w-40, AFE 0w30 (which is in it right now, still on the full line....) so this begs more questions than it brings answers on the Modular
Good posts. My notoriously oil consuming Jetta is burning almost zero oil now with just topping up of 2 qts of M1 0/40. The original oil is still Mag1 Euro 5w40 which burned half qt per 1k miles - hence requiring topping up. Of course there are lots of variables in there but I'll see next OCI if just M1 will keep my oil consumption to zero.
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