Bump stocks

[MRC01]

The upside of the decision is that the administrative entity has been properly limited; the ATF does not have the authority to make such declarations.
The downside is that some day, the Congress may take action; that would be the Constitutional approach. ...

Exactly. This was purely a technical decision. The ATF can only interpret the statutory law that Congress writes. They cannot rewrite it or invent new laws. A bump stock does not meet the statutory definition of a "machine gun".

Put differently, Congress can make bump stocks illegal by passing legislation. But Congress never did that, and administrative agencies can't make up new laws. PS: If Congress did pass new legislation for this, it could be challenged on constitutional grounds, and then the SCOTUS would have to decide the case again, this time on the merits.

This decision is being misinterpreted or misrepresented on most of the mainstream news channels I have read or watched.

 

[burbguy82]

I don't have one and don't want one, but ignoring a Supreme Court decision would be quite a stretch.

I don't know. A lie told long enough, tends to become truth. Technically, any gun that does not have anything do do with the preservation of a well regulated militia, could be banned and it not be unconstitutional.

This is treading on thin ice, but, the notion of illegality or legality, only means something years later in court, mostly after the damage was done.

This time around, meaning when the ATF made the "ruling", it has taken this long for it to get to the SC, 6 years or so.

I would not bet on a SC ruling not being followed, especially in anti gun states, as they could just pass more anti gun laws. Once a law is passed, all bets are off, at least in the states.

 

[Jdeere562]

Never had a bump stock or desire to own one. Saw one in action, and it was fun to watch the guy burn up ammo real fast.

I have a full auto BB gun and that is enough for me. 50 BB's in 7 or 8 seconds, really makes cans dance.
It puts a smile on every ones face that shoots it. Totally legal as well.

 

[burbguy82]

If bump-stocks as accessories are banned, what's next???

And there lies the issue, a very slippery slope as the cliche goes. I have a manual milling machine, and I have some 4140 and 4150 steel, I also have the knowledge an know how to make my own reciever for a gun..........is the coupling between the three a gun? Some would argue yes.

However, I am going to have to disagree on your assessment of the fire capability, and therefore "enhancement" of the gun by the bump stock. If you would like to know why, then I will be happy to ablige, but if not, I will keep it to myself for now.

Further, there are some items out there (to which I think) have been made and put into market as "landmines" for gun owners to get in trouble with. One and maybe the best example of this is the "solvent trap"

 

[oil pan 4]

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking what actions the ATF has taken as administrative and not authorized by legislation?
Just to name a few ...
- pistol braces
- forced reset triggers
- 80% lowers
- 5320.20 transport forms

They tried to implement universal background checks by making up the rule that everyone who sells any guns or even a gun is a dealer.
They changed the rules so solvent traps are silencers.
Rubber washers weren't silencer parts for ever, then in about 2015 they decided to change a rule to where they were silencer parts then I think 2021 they weren't silencer parts again.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I don't know. A lie told long enough, tends to become truth. Technically, any gun that does not have anything do do with the preservation of a well regulated militia, could be banned and it not be unconstitutional.

This is treading on thin ice, but, the notion of illegality or legality, only means something years later in court, mostly after the damage was done.

This time around, meaning when the ATF made the "ruling", it has taken this long for it to get to the SC, 6 years or so.

I would not bet on a SC ruling not being followed, especially in anti gun states, as they could just pass more anti gun laws. Once a law is passed, all bets are off, at least in the states.

Technically before the passing of the 14th Amendment the individual states, towns, could restrict firearms possession. This is because under Federalism the 2A only speaks to the relationship between the Federal Govt and a citizen.

Read up on the Incorporation Doctrine.

 

[billt460]

You can have whatever opinion you wish, and call bumpstocks, "stupid". But sidestepping the Constitution to "ban" them, after first allowing them to be manufactured and sold, is even more stupid. It's much the same with, "Pistol Braces".

Then, after they got popular, and tons of them were sold, they decided to reverse their "position" and make them, "illegal".

All of this occurring when they should have never had a "position" on their legality in the first place. It is the ATF's job to enforce legislation..... Not create it. They're glorified Federal police in that sense.

It was nothing more than a false, foolish, (and illegal) attempt to legislate honest, law abiding citizens into criminals.

And furthermore, banning them will accomplish nothing unless they ban fingers as well.

 

[billt460]

I also found this to be rather interesting. What initially brought all of the attention to bumpstocks, was the Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas shooting that occurred on Sunday, October 1st. 2017. Prior to that most people that were not gun affectionados, didn't even know what a bumpstock was.

This letter from the U.S. Department Of Justice, ATF Division, is dated May 1st, 2019. Approximately a year and a half after the Las Vegas shooting took place. In it the ATF says,

"We have conducted a search for any records documenting the use of a bump-fire type stock used in the commission of any crime to date, and found no responsive records. This is not a denial of information, rather it is to inform you that no records were found based on a search of our Criminal Enforcement System of Records".

There has always been much speculation that while bumpstocks were found in the room of the Las Vegas shooter, there has never been ANY evidence that he ever actually used them. This letter from the ATF confirms this.

If there was evidence that he used them, you can pretty much bet the ATF would have been all over it like stink on dog crap. Simply because it suits their narrative to a tee.

 

[Pablo]

Yes I said they are stupid and nearly toy like. Nothing in this means I disagree with this ruling or anything else you wrote really.

The press continues the lie about Vegas and they always get away with lies about guns.

 

[Chevelle3221]

I had one of these. In my case bouncing off my belly was easier! LOL

 

[oil pan 4]

I also found this to be rather interesting. What initially brought all of the attention to bumpstocks, was the Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas shooting that occurred on Sunday, October 1st. 2017. Prior to that most people that were not gun affectionados, didn't even know what a bumpstock was.

This letter from the U.S. Department Of Justice, ATF Division, is dated May 1st, 2019. Approximately a year and a half after the Las Vegas shooting took place. In it the ATF says,

"We have conducted a search for any records documenting the use of a bump-fire type stock used in the commission of any crime to date, and found no responsive records. This is not a denial of information, rather it is to inform you that no records were found based on a search of our Criminal Enforcement System of Records".

There has always been much speculation that while bumpstocks were found in the room of the Las Vegas shooter, there has never been ANY evidence that he ever actually used them. This letter from the ATF confirms this.

If there was evidence that he used them, you can pretty much bet the ATF would have been all over it like stink on dog crap. Simply because it suits their narrative to a tee.

View attachment 226292

Oops....
Sounds like that time they found a hellfire trigger on the floor of the class room of the uvaldie shooting.

 

[Pew]

Cool novelty item until my wallet starts crying from the ammo used.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

You can have whatever opinion you wish, and call bumpstocks, "stupid". But sidestepping the Constitution to "ban" them, after first allowing them to be manufactured and sold, is even more stupid. It's much the same with, "Pistol Braces".
...

As Joe citizen, I do not want Joey Moron or Joe Mental to have the ability to easily enhance the rate of fire of their semi-auto.

No need in hunting. And sorry, you can't have it for enjoyment either because of (above).

Leave the M4 and other enhanced weaponry to the Military and State/County tactical units.

And before it comes up as an example, I might also propose a ban on motor vehicles that have less than eight pounds curb weight
per lb-ft torque at 4000 rpm. These cars are ridiculously unnecessary and unsafe. Got that FCA?

This from an old hotrodder and rabble-rouser of all people

This is not an unincumbered free country, but one of laws and statutes for the common good of it's people; res publica!
___________________________________________________________

 

[4WD]

As Joe citizen, I do not want Joey Moron or Joe Mental to have the ability to easily enhance the rate of fire of their semi-auto.

No need in hunting. And sorry, you can't have it for enjoyment either because of (above).

Leave the M4 and other enhanced weaponry to the Military and State/County tactical units.

And before it comes up as an example, I might also propose a ban on motor vehicles that have less than eight pounds curb weight
per lb-ft torque at 4000 rpm. These cars are ridiculously unnecessary and unsafe. Got that FCA?

This from an old hotrodder and rabble-rouser of all people

This is not an unincumbered free country, but one of laws and statutes for the common good of it's people; res publica!
___________________________________________________________

You gonna call out Tesla too ?

 

[Revving2Redline]

As Joe citizen, I do not want Joey Moron or Joe Mental to have the ability to easily enhance the rate of fire of their semi-auto.

No need in hunting. And sorry, you can't have it for enjoyment either because of (above).

Leave the M4 and other enhanced weaponry to the Military and State/County tactical units.

And before it comes up as an example, I might also propose a ban on motor vehicles that have less than eight pounds curb weight
per lb-ft torque at 4000 rpm. These cars are ridiculously unnecessary and unsafe. Got that FCA?

This from an old hotrodder and rabble-rouser of all people

This is not an unincumbered free country, but one of laws and statutes for the common good of it's people; res publica!
___________________________________________________________

M4 is different from a sport rifle like the ar15 or Ruger 14 as it can throw multiple rounds on a single squeeze. They could make it nfa just like suppressors and have to do a form 4 and tax stamp. never had a bump accessory, never had a need to get one or a equipment that used one. Just like high quality boutique oil, if I needed it, it would have been included already. Have a great day everyone!!

 

[4WD]

Yes I said they are stupid and nearly toy like. Nothing in this means I disagree with this ruling or anything else you wrote really.

The press continues the lie about Vegas and they always get away with lies about guns.

Reminds me of a famous school that had a “Visitor’s Welcome” sign out front and one showed up …
They are not welcome here at all - and you will see who parks next to the Principal - he might be behind that one way window in the lobby - and a bump stock is a toy to him … Or he’s on the move …
2nd LEO is running radar a few feet away …
Doors require electronic badges like my office does …
Select Teachers/Coaches have CCP …

 

[billt460]

No need in hunting. And sorry, you can't have it for enjoyment either because of (above).

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting.... And never did. Show me anywhere it mentions it, and I'll gladly stand corrected.

And as far as your deep concern and worry about the heavy cloud of danger you seem to think bumpstocks are placing you under, read the letter from the ATF I posted. (Post #28 above).

You would be far better entertained worrying about the asteroid.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Reminds me of a famous school that had a “Visitor’s Welcome” sign out front and one showed up …
They are not welcome here at all - and you will see who parks next to the Principal - he might be behind that one way window in the lobby - and a bump stock is a toy to him … Or he’s on the move …
2nd LEO is running radar a few feet away …
Doors require electronic badges like my office does …
Select Teachers/Coaches have CCP …

Dang. I can feel for the kids these days. Shootings are a REAL threat.
The Sandy Hook shooter lived down the street from me when he was younger.

When I was in grade school, all I had to worry about was Nuclear Annihilation ... and I didn't really.

 

[4WD]

Dang. I can feel for the kids these days. Shootings are a REAL threat.
The Sandy Hook shooter lived down the street from me when he was younger.

When I was in grade school, all I had to worry about was Nuclear Annihilation ... and I didn't really.

View attachment 226515

I remember that - but these LEO’s are pretty good at this role - they are always asking the kids about grades and aspirations - Yet, are firm - but fair if a couple kids get “cross threaded” … It gives them an exit with a sting …
A bad guy makes a try? Pity that fool …

 

[redbone3]

Maybe, those have not been challenged?