Brewers, add extract late option?

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7,771
Location
Oklahoma
Came across this on another site. Anyone try it? In a nutshell: boil water as you normally would BUT only add a pound or two of your malt. Add hops as usual. After about 30 minutes or so, knock out flame and add the rest of your malt and let steep in at least 160 degree water for 15 minutes, add finishing hops at this time. Kind of makes sense because the extract has already been boiled down by the manufacturer, and its suppose to make lighter colored brews. That leads to grain steeping, steep in 3 gallons of water or 3 quarts of water per pound of grain bill? I figured the more water, the better the absorbing properties, but perhaps I'm off base here.
 
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2,979
Location
Cincinnati
I'd boil it. What if there's a chance the extract picked up some wild yeast? I know Zymurgy just did an article about reducing effort and energy expenditures when brewing, but I'd still always boil for the full hour. Granted, I haven't done extract brewing since mid 2001, so perhaps I'm the one who's off base!
 
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2,098
Location
The Rocky Mountains
I do it in my extract brews and have suffered no contamination...just let it hit 165 for 10 seconds and you have NO worries. The thermal death time of most of these spoilage organisms is amazingly low. The flavor of your homebrew is much improved and the color isn't all jacked up either. Here's my secret. I preboil my boiling hops in a 6 quart kettle with 1 pound of base malt and any other adjuncts for an hour or so. Then transfer to your cook kettle...add finish hops and aroma hops and (assuming you have fresh malt extract) you will be rewarded with some refreshing brew.
 
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456
Location
CA
Late add is the ONLY way I brew anymore. I boil hops and non sugar ingredients for 45-60 minutes, add extract, stir and let it sit for 10 minutes or so. Not only is your color lighter, hop utilization is better, you eliminate that extract "tang" and produce a more fermentable wort. Do it with confidence!
 

Schmoe

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7,771
Location
Oklahoma
Wow. Amazing how many differnt ways there are to make extracts, and I've been doing this for about 2 years now. Learn something new everyday. Interesting approach, pickled. It seems like all my extracts have tasted about the same. Still good, none the less, but the same also. On another note, have about 4 pounds of corn sugar for priming that I have left over because I keg and some of the kits I used to get, Brewers Best, just came with it. I come across this recipe when I was searching for something to do with them. This is off of homebrewtalk.com Apfelwine 5 gallons of pure apple juice 2 pounds of corn sugar yeast. Just sanitize everything, no boiling, just dump the apple juice in and the yeast, mix them up, put a bubbler on it, then let sit for about 8 weeks, then bottle or keg. Going to try that one out tonight.
 
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2,098
Location
The Rocky Mountains
I'd make some cinnamon or clove extract to cover off on any potential nasty notes. Cider is pretty robust, but 2lbs of the corn sugar might put it over the edge. I take a cinnamon stick and soak it in everclear for a few days to extract the essence then I dump the liquid portion into the keg before I siphon the cider over from the secondary. No worries about contamination this way because no spoilage organism of concern can live in 190 proof. I've also "fortified" my homebrewed ciders with everclear and various flavored vodka to bump up the buzz potential for special events. My friends lovingly named my halloween cider from 2 years ago, "Panties Off Cider"...
 

Schmoe

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7,771
Location
Oklahoma
That's hillarious, Panties Off Cider..... Well, I made it and it's bubbling like crazy. Has been since Sunday afternoon. It's really cloudy right now. Used 4.5 gallons of Members Mark 100% apple juice, 30 ounces of corn sugar and Munton's gold yeast. Should be done fermenting I'd think by tonight or tomorrow. One thing I did read was that you should carb it up, like you would with beer. But then again, that won't really qualify it as wine, would it? Could you drink this stuff without carbination? I also did my late extraction only brew this weekend and ran into some trouble. I put one pound of LME, hops and the steeped grain extract and boiled for about 45 minutes. Then flame out, added the rest of the LME. Stirred like crazy and thought it was all dissolved. Checked the temperature and it was 180 degrees after the LME was added. Let sit for about 10 minutes ant then chilled. When I went to dump into the primary, I still had some LME in the bottom of the kettle. Whassup with that?
 
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2,098
Location
The Rocky Mountains
That's strange....maybe you had the goop shoved in the corner of the pot while you were stirring or something. Mine usually only takes about a minute of me getting 2nd degree burns while stirring and it's good to go. As far as your apple project goes...it is much better sparking than still. You can set a couple of 22oz bottles aside still and try them, but I definitely recommend batch carbonation of the rest. Brings out a really smooth flavor. Don't worry you'll be in the consumption phase soon so you had better get another batch ready!
 

Schmoe

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7,771
Location
Oklahoma
That's the problem, both of my two primary buckets are full. I haven't read much on using Mutons gold yeast on the apple wine, hope it comes out pretty good. Be a nice break from brewing for a while, especially in the summer when getting them down to pitch temperature takes a lot longer. Do you flame out when you dump the malt extract in? or do you turn the heat down or turn it off all the way?
 
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2,098
Location
The Rocky Mountains
Flame out, stir for one minute- like my life depended on it then let stew for a few minutes more before transfer to my starsan soaked primary with 2 gallons of COLD RO water. My wort temps are usually well over 210 when I dump in the big load of extract and finishing hops. I usually make a starter for my ciders where I boil up some water and some DLME (about 2 ounces of extract to 1 pint of water). I then pour this into a sanitized 2 cup measuring cup and pitch the yeast when the liquid temp hits 90 F. Within 20 minutes you'll know whether you were sold a bum yeast cake or not! FYI Schmoe- when in doubt add capacity to your brewhouse!
 

Schmoe

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7,771
Location
Oklahoma
You pitch at 90F? I thought that was wayyyyy too high for the yeast. Wouldn't you worry about fermenting out too fast? I have added capacity. I made a keggle from an stainless steel keg, got the banjo burner, immersion cooler, etc. etc. I just got lazy this past year. I'll do full keggle boils if I'm trying to win a competition, but other than that, the brews taste great regardless. Plus, clean up is a whole lot quicker and faster with partial, late extraction method on the stove.
 
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2,098
Location
The Rocky Mountains
Ale yeast and 90F don't hurt a thing...I have a gold, bronze and two silvers that back it up LOL! I love harvesting yeast and usually keep them evolving continuously to my way of brewing by keeping a starter culture from the sterile primary blow off. I have poured my wort on top of a just siphoned off primary on many occasions and have been awarded by amazing 72 hour total gravity fermentations with excellent body, residual sugar and head retention. Maybe I'm just lucky!
 

Schmoe

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7,771
Location
Oklahoma
Now that interests me, pour wort on top of the just siphoned primary. Is it, can it be that simple? How long can the old yeast sit in the primary before dumping new wort? I usually let the primary sit for two weeks, then rack into secondary. When I do all that, I go ahead and make a new batch of extract. You think I could dump wort into the siphoned off primary after it's been sitting for two weeks? You think the yeast would "come alive " again? I've actually heard of this, but been too afraid to try it, but even dry yeast price is going up and up.
 
Messages
2,098
Location
The Rocky Mountains
I've done it a couple of times- yes if you have a ton of trub that carried over from your first fermentation it can contribute some off flavors if you leave the yeast in the lag phase too long. I will typically do this on pale ales that I put about 2.5 oz of 12% AA challenger hops in. Essentially use good siphon technique and hit your airlock with more sanitizer. What I do is add cold water to the primary which stirs up the cake pretty well then dump my wort in and aerate it like a wild man. Fermentation starts extremely quick so most spoilage organisms of concern don't get a chance to take hold. Essentially you can rack to the secondary in about 48 hours with this technique provided you control the temps well. Now that I've fabricated a 10 gallon stainless conical with a dump valve I'm not dinking around as much as I used to, but I like keeping the yeast for generations and repitching in this manner :).
 

Schmoe

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7,771
Location
Oklahoma
I brewed a batch last night and saved the cake from a brew I racked into a keg. But, I just couldn't dump the whole thing in. Something just made me a little nervous. Do you dump the whole thing, cake and all? Or do you seperate the cake out somehow? I noticed that there were three "layers." Liquid on top, a lighter middle layer and then another layer on the bottom. Probably wouldn't want to repitch that whole thing would I? Old trub in a new batch just doesn't sound right.
 
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2,098
Location
The Rocky Mountains
Typically the very bottom layer is left over chunks of trub, middle to upper layer is the alive, sleeping and dead yeast. I typically just put the new batch into the old primary. I'd set up my brew days so I'd have time to drop the contents of a primary into a secondary fermentation vessel. There would be about 20 minutes of time in-between the final boil and the end of my siphoning where I could sanitize the air lock/neck area again and go. I would then pour the cold water into the primary with the cake and then pour my wort in immediately after. Aerate, put the airlock on and get ready to transfer to a secondary in anywhere between 48-72 hours later. Fermentation is RAPID using this method and I seriously never had severe off flavors from autolysis due to the short window of exposure. Now that I have a conical with dual dump valves the difference between primary and secondary fermentation really is closing valve 1 and opening valve 2...it's way sweet!
 

Schmoe

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7,771
Location
Oklahoma
I'd like to get one of those too, but just can't right now. So, the middle layer is the yeast. Got a good absorption of LME on the last batch, I added it after flame out and stirred like a crazed woman. Worked great and the brew is a LOT lighter.
 
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