Break-in oil change debate

[weaponoffreedom]

The unsolvable debate, change oil soon after purchase or wait for the OCI to say do it. I was going to wait, partly from doubting its necessity with today's engines and partly from cheapness. The local Christian Brothers just announced an oil change special for $14.99, eliminating the cheapness argument, so I'm going tomorrow and get it changed. I'll have ~425 miles or so at that point, enough that any wayward particles should be removed. And small side benefit going forward I'll have July 4th every year as my oil change reminder.

So if we agree that an engine needs a break in, even if the owners manual says it does not........is changing the oil frequently in the beginning bad for the engine? My opinion is not really. With the caveat that the break in period might be extended by extremely short oci in the beginning.

Now for those who are going to chime in with "site your sources" or "give me a study that proves your opinion", move on with your liberal thinking of cancelling info that is pertinent to the concept of the question at hand. The following is a sort of thought experiment that has a similar process, one that I have done more times than most have ever built an engine, drove it for 5000 miles, disassembled it measured the parts, reassembled and repeated this process until failure, to really observe, for themselves, the effects of break in and wear in an engine.

I have this thing about sharpening our kitchen knives. They are professional quality, JA Henkels brand, premium steel and so on. They are supurb and CAN take a nice edge that with last for about a year, under proper use. I use a variety of Japanese water stones. Unlike most ways of sharpening, the slurry, created by the friction between the blade and the stone being worn off, AIDS in the setting of the edge much quicker than if water is not used. The water in this case lifts the slurry out of the pores of the stone. As this process continues, (assuming you do your part) the "grinding" noise changes. Once the edge of the blade and stone are in plane or "worn together" the noise gets deeper. This is when you know you have set the new edge, and you need to change the stone to the next finer grit. You change the water, removing "all" of theprevious grit slurry, and start with the new grit. This is done until you get to your finest grit. Once you have got to the finest grit, the "grinding" between the blade and stone almost feels like you are not really doing anything at all. The relationship feel like you are gliding on a piece of glass. By this time, you are more polishing than cutting on the edge. The surface is mirror like, and can cut like a laser.

If you have any mechanical mindset, you can see how this would be similar to the break in of and engine. Parts that have been newly mated together are trying to grind against each other, finding their place in the world, until they have found a relationship between each other that they both like.

So by extreme frequent changes in the beginning, I could see an increase in the time it takes to break in and engine, and no real value, sure the relationship might be finer in the end, but if that take 30000 miles before you can floor the throttle, seems to me to be a waste.

There are many arguments that could be made either way, as to why the manual says "no break in" needed, but that is kind of a different subject.

Hope this adds to the thread.

 

[Speedy3861]

Honda specifically recommends not changing the initial fill until at least 3000 miles, or as much as 5000. There is no Honda "break-in oil" but the initial fill has lots moly used in engine assembly which aids in the break-in process. My Honda Certified Master Technician who services my car at the dealer has suggested a change to a Full Synthetic 0W-20 and a filter change at 3000 or so, but not before. Trying to decide Between Mobil1 0W-20 AFE or EP, will use either the Honda 154-PLM-A02 Filter or the K&N HP-1008. With the known dilution issues of the 1.5t engine, will most likely do a UOA 3k into the first change to see what the dilution looks like. if the oil is thinned below grade or close, will probably go to 3-3500 OCI or change to a 0W-30. I have a 120K 7yr HondaCare plan, but plan on keeping this car as long as possible, so I'll be a bit pro-active with service. Wish I could still do my oil changes, but at 76 and somewhat handicapped, I have to rely on a good trusted Tech at my dealer (a really excellent shop) to do my work. Also, with the extended warranty, everything is documented so, if problems arise, that makes to situation easier.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Honda specifically recommends not changing the initial fill until at least 3000 miles, or as much as 5000. There is no Honda "break-in oil" but the initial fill has lots moly used in engine assembly which aids in the break-in process. My Honda Certified Master Technician who services my car at the dealer has suggested a change to a Full Synthetic 0W-20 and a filter change at 3000 or so, but not before. Trying to decide Between Mobil1 0W-20 AFE or EP, will use either the Honda 154-PLM-A02 Filter or the K&N HP-1008. With the known dilution issues of the 1.5t engine, will most likely do a UOA 3k into the first change to see what the dilution looks like. if the oil is thinned below grade or close, will probably go to 3-3500 OCI or change to a 0W-30. I have a 120K 7yr HondaCare plan, but plan on keeping this car as long as possible, so I'll be a bit pro-active with service.

Looks like you went with M1 0W30AFE

 

[Speedy3861]

Looks like you went with M1 0W30AFE

Not yet, that's kind of pro-active, hoping the 0W-20 works ok, only have 400 miles on the Civic so far. Our CRV was switched over to M1 5W-30 EP a year ago, my wife seldom takes highway drives and the CRV is a real diluter because of the numerous short trips, its a 2020 that just turned 10K, have found that 2-2500K OCI's are cheaper than constant UOA's. My 2019 Civic would run 5K changes on M1 0w-20 AFE with near-perfect UOA's so I'm hoping that the highway miles will do the same.

 

[ZeeOSix]

There are many arguments that could be made either way, as to why the manual says "no break in" needed, but that is kind of a different subject.

I don't think I've ever seen an owner's manual that said "no break-in required". There is always some kind of driving style stipulations stated (for the first xxx miles) to basically not over stress the components until they have "broke in" some ("finding their place in the world" as you say).

 

[weaponoffreedom]

I don't think I've ever seen an owner's manual that said "no break-in required". There is always some kind of driving style stipulations stated (for the first xxx miles) to basically not over stress the components until they have "broke in" some ("finding their place in the world" as you say).

I agree, I have never seen any manual that did not show some type of modified driving schedule such as "no full throttle starts" and the like. But now that I am thinking of it, my 2020 2500hd did not specifically say "break in" but did note a modified driving schedule for 500 miles, I suppose the same thing.

 

[Drifter]

I made it to 1100 mi and couldnt go a mile further. Replaced with QS full synthetic and OEM filter . At 89k now. All is well. No regrets

 

[KrisZ]

Change it yourself early and examine it afterwards. Chances are it will look silverfish with lots of small break in particles. It doesn’t look like a normal old oil for sure.

I think many here recommending to go full OCI have not seen a used factory fill. If you let a shop change it, it will be just another oil change for you as you won’t see the oil and the metal particles floating in it.

Next, get your sights on the ATF, dump it at 10-20k miles.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Always been at 3K for me..... dating back to my first new one (yellow 1970 Plymouth Cuda' 340).
Several new ones purchased since.... most recent 2020 Kia Soul XLine.

I/m first and last owner on them-all. When they go to the junk yard, they run great, but have dangerous rust throughout the underbody and side panels.

 

[Eddie]

In GOD I believe, all others bring DATA. Guessing just doesn't do it.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Change it really early.
More like 98% oil life left according to the oil change monitor.

 

[tblt44]

Here goes, I dump my FF as soon as I get home from the dealership.

So you drive from dealer to parts store grab a filer and may be oil then drain it when you get home ?

 

[TheLawnRanger]

My younger self didn't know about changing the factory fill early. I can't help but think those cars would have lasted longer than 12 years if I would have changed the oil earlier.

 

[KrisZ]

Why does the discussion have to boil down to blown engines?

Particles in oil can affect engine break in, similar to how it is operated early on. This in turn can affect engine compression for example, which in turn can have an effect of fuel economy and overall engine efficiency.

 

[demarpaint]

So you drive from dealer to parts store grab a filer and may be oil then drain it when you get home ?

No, I had everything I needed in my stash.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Why does the discussion have to boil down to blown engines?

Because on BITOG the "criteria" if something is good or bad always boils down to if it caused the engine blow-up or not.

 

[paulri]

I remember Shannow starting an entire thread on this concept. Was quite a read.

Because on BITOG the "criteria" if something is good or bad always boils down to if it caused the engine blow-up or not.

 

[mr_boring]

Contrary to some beliefs, the 14.99 oil special is almost assuredly not used fryer oil and is, in fact, reputable oil.

This is what is known as a loss leader. Grocery stores and other retailers do it to get people in the door and hope that they buy other stuff that turns the retailer a profit. Milk has always been a good example, as have eggs. Sometimes you might see a crazy ribeye sale, say at 4.99lb at Bobo's Fine Grocery. B's F G is hoping people flock in a to buy those ribeyes, and then buy a few taters at 1.39/lb and some butter for the tater's and maybe some asparagus...... so on and so forth. They lose 3$ on the lb of ribeye you buy, but make a good profit on the fixins.

On it being break-in oil - heck, is anybody REALLY sure that manufacturers really even use special oil anymore? They might - I dunno. I don't put the oil in.

You do what makes you feel good.

 

[64bawagon]

I don't think I've ever seen an owner's manual that said "no break-in required". There is always some kind of driving style stipulations stated (for the first xxx miles) to basically not over stress the components until they have "broke in" some ("finding their place in the world" as you say).

and having said that, they put the vehicle in the hands of people at the factory, transport company and dealership porters who all drive it like they stole it.

 

[64bawagon]

Contrary to some beliefs, the 14.99 oil special is almost assuredly not used fryer oil and is, in fact, reputable oil.

This is what is known as a loss leader. Grocery stores and other retailers do it to get people in the door and hope that they buy other stuff that turns the retailer a profit. Milk has always been a good example, as have eggs. Sometimes you might see a crazy ribeye sale, say at 4.99lb at Bobo's Fine Grocery. B's F G is hoping people flock in a to buy those ribeyes, and then buy a few taters at 1.39/lb and some butter for the tater's and maybe some asparagus...... so on and so forth. They lose 3$ on the lb of ribeye you buy, but make a good profit on the fixins.

On it being break-in oil - heck, is anybody REALLY sure that manufacturers really even use special oil anymore? They might - I dunno. I don't put the oil in.

You do what makes you feel good.

You lost me at "Asparagus"