Brake Squeal Ford Explorer?

[Sayjac]

My son has an 05 Explorer. At the end of December he had the original front pads replaced, and they said his rotors needed turning too. My son took it to a local NAPA affiliated garage with a good reputation. They supposedly used a NAPA premium pad and the whole job came to around $140.00.

Now though, the brakes are squealing when warm/hot. There was no problem with the brakes and no pulsation before, they were just getting low. I took it back today and they are going to cut the rotors again. It's my son vehicle, but I'm not particularly pleased because I know that also means a shorter life for the rotors.

My question is, in this short time could it really be the rotors, or is it more likely the pad, and the backing on the pad? Or, is it some other problem? This is a case where I would have felt better about using a Ford OEM pad, but what the stealership wanted for the job was rediculous.

Any thoughts or opinions.

 

[jorton]

How smooth did the shop cut the rotors? I heard they shouldn't be cut to a "mirror" finish, but find out for sure from an expert.

 

[demarpaint]

Cutting the rotors again will certainly shorten their life. If it were my car, I would try removing the pads, cleaning the pads and rotors, then apply some bedding compound, or spray the backs of the pads with the Prematex Disk Brake spray. I've had good luck with that product. If that doesn't work, then cutting or replacing the rotors is an option. Odds are if they're cut again they will be at or over the limit, and prone to warping or distortion.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: jorton

How smooth did the shop cut the rotors? I heard they shouldn't be cut to a "mirror" finish, but find out for sure from an expert.

Yeah, he did mention something like that to my son and could be why they want to try again. I did ask him how much he was going to cut them again, I think he said 2/1000.

On my own vehicles I normally don't turn the rotors unless I'm getting a pulsation, just have new pads installed. Had it done on several vehicles with no issues.

They said the reason he needed his turned was because of the discoloration on the outer edge of the rotor, from heat.

As I said they are reasonable and reputable in the area. My son had them replace his gas filter, a pita on this vehicle. He lives out of town, so that's why I'm involved in this one.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Cutting the rotors again will certainly shorten their life. If it were my car, I would try removing the pads, cleaning the pads and rotors, then apply some bedding compound, or spray the backs of the pads with the Prematex Disk Brake spray. I've had good luck with that product. If that doesn't work, then cutting or replacing the rotors is an option. Odds are if they're cut again they will be at or over the limit, and prone to warping or distortion.

Update. Looks like you were on target with this one. Went to pick up the vehicle. Said they decided not to turn the rotors again, I'm glad. Simply put a rotational disc to the rotors again. He said they did it after the last time they were turned too.

Also, he said they replaced the pads again, and I did notice some type of compound brushed on the back of the pads. So, good call. We'll see how it turns out after my son drives it for a while.

He explained why they put the disc to the rotors after being machined, makes sense.

 

[mechtech2]

Squeal and noise is the #1 complaint from brake customers in teh industry.
But a little anti squeal sauce on the back of the pads usually works.
It should have been done even if there are shims there [by the installer]. Unless they like come-backs!

 

[ksJoe]

My car started squealing some under light braking (more or less pedal pressure and it would quit).

First I tried CRC Disk Brake Quiet (spray can stuff for the back side of the pads). It made them quiet for about a thousand miles, then the same noise started again.

I did some more reading and found the CRC stuff is for pads without shims. Mine has shims. I read that the brake grease is what should be used on pads with shims. So I cleaned them again and put grease on them. Its been maybe a couple thousand miles, and no noise so far.

 

[alanu]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Cutting the rotors again will certainly shorten their life. If it were my car, I would try removing the pads, cleaning the pads and rotors, then apply some bedding compound, or spray the backs of the pads with the Prematex Disk Brake spray. I've had good luck with that product. If that doesn't work, then cutting or replacing the rotors is an option. Odds are if they're cut again they will be at or over the limit, and prone to warping or distortion.

Update. Looks like you were on target with this one. Went to pick up the vehicle. Said they decided not to turn the rotors again, I'm glad. Simply put a rotational disc to the rotors again. He said they did it after the last time they were turned too.

Also, he said they replaced the pads again, and I did notice some type of compound brushed on the back of the pads. So, good call. We'll see how it turns out after my son drives it for a while.

He explained why they put the disc to the rotors after being machined, makes sense.


What kind of rotational disc?

On my brake lathe I'll machine it to fine then I'll use 320 emery and do a final hand finish to all of my customers rotors.

Hitting your son's rotors with a rotational disk after its been "used" seems lazy. How did they get to the back side of the rotor???? If they are at that point they should have simply pulled the rotors out and did a minimal cut. Realistically I'd throw the old ones and put new ones on. Heavy cars tend to distort the hat of the rotors. Factory specifications DO NOT mention hat distortion from age or heat.

I use a raybestos product that is a slicon grease on the backside of the pad. I've had literally NO PROBLEMS with squeeks for several years. I do ALOT of brakes using Raybestos professional grade (PGD-C) pads.

 

[Sayjac]

Good question. My impression is they did take the rotors off and use the disc on both sides. I assume the disc is attached to a drill. Not sure though, that's just the term he used.

They send out the rotors, I believe to the NAPA shop just down the road from them. Then when they come back they try to take the directionality (grooves) out of them with the disc. That's my understanding anyway.

I too am somewhat skeptical considering they repeated their first steps, with the exception of turning them. The stuff on the back of the pads looks silver in color, but I'm not positive of that.

We'll see. Good to find these things out though, and get some feedback and opinions.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Cutting the rotors again will certainly shorten their life. If it were my car, I would try removing the pads, cleaning the pads and rotors, then apply some bedding compound, or spray the backs of the pads with the Prematex Disk Brake spray. I've had good luck with that product. If that doesn't work, then cutting or replacing the rotors is an option. Odds are if they're cut again they will be at or over the limit, and prone to warping or distortion.

Update. Looks like you were on target with this one. Went to pick up the vehicle. Said they decided not to turn the rotors again, I'm glad. Simply put a rotational disc to the rotors again. He said they did it after the last time they were turned too.

Also, he said they replaced the pads again, and I did notice some type of compound brushed on the back of the pads. So, good call. We'll see how it turns out after my son drives it for a while.

He explained why they put the disc to the rotors after being machined, makes sense.


Sounds like you made a good call using this mechanic. No one is perfect, he very easily could have re-cut the rotors, then if the noise came back said the rotors were bad and charged you to replace them. I think you'll be OK now.

 

[bdcardinal]

with Ford rotors, cleaning them with brake cleaner seems to induce more noises. Ford recommends using soapy water to clean them to our techs.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
with Ford rotors, cleaning them with brake cleaner seems to induce more noises. Ford recommends using soapy water to clean them to our techs.

That's correct. Brake clean doesn't remove all of the embedded metal particles, which is why soapy water is recommended.

As for the original problem, sometimes aftermarket pads don't work well with the factory rotors.

 

[mechtech2]

Fresh cut rotors rarely squeal.
It is when they get smooth that the noise starts.