Brake pad upgrade?

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Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We run thermo q's on our fleet trucks. They are a smooth long lasting pad.

But in my limited experience the semi metallics will be better stopping under adverse conditions, and will produce more dust and noise/vibration.

The same distinctions cannot be assumed of other manufacturers. Many have caught on to the consumer's preference for 'ceramic' pads and are marketing them as the second coming!


YES!

You run TQ semi-metallic or ceramic on fleet trucks?
 
I can't even begin to say what BRAND of ceramic pads that I have had good succuss with. Since I have been using ceramic pads, I don't experience any brake issues anymore. This isn't to say that I haven't had to replace a caliper or other parts, here & there. But, ceramic pads have caused me to love all of my vehicles brake systems and braking. Based on a star(*) system, this is how they rate(1*=worst/5*'s =best)...Of the brands that I have used...Listed alphabeticaly:

Akebono *****
Bendix ***
Centric ****
Raybestos ***
Wagner ****

Are the ones that come to mind that I can remember right now! I'm sure that I have tried others but, they escape me right now.

Lot's of people tell me to try HAWK or EBC but, I don't need to, I am that happy with what I'm using!
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Thanks for the info and photo.

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: Spartuss
Does anybody know the friction rating of Bendix CT-3 Ceramic pads?


The ones I put on my Hyundai were GG rated. The OE pads were FF rated.

Here's a link to the full thread (ignore the B-S from some members questioning the country of origin of these pads. They're made in Canada).

Link to CT-3 pics/review


IMG_4615-1000.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I can't even begin to say what BRAND of ceramic pads that I have had good succuss with. Since I have been using ceramic pads, I don't experience any brake issues anymore. This isn't to say that I haven't had to replace a caliper or other parts, here & there. But, ceramic pads have caused me to love all of my vehicles brake systems and braking. Based on a star(*) system, this is how they rate(1*=worst/5*'s =best)...Of the brands that I have used...Listed alphabeticaly:

Akebono *****
Bendix ***
Centric ****
Raybestos ***
Wagner ****

Are the ones that come to mind that I can remember right now! I'm sure that I have tried others but, they escape me right now.

Lot's of people tell me to try HAWK or EBC but, I don't need to, I am that happy with what I'm using!
smile.gif



Which Bendix Ceramic pad did you use to rate it below Centric and Wagner ?

I didn't try either Centric or Wagner yet, I have Bendix CT3 on S2000 now and happy with it, stopping performance as good as OE pad but less dust and noise.
 
HTSS_TR
Which Bendix Ceramic pad did you use to rate it below Centric and Wagner ?

I didn't try either Centric or Wagner yet, I have Bendix CT3 on S2000 now and happy with it, stopping performance as good as OE pad but less dust and noise.
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They were CT-3's I beleive on a 2000 Corolla with aluminum wheels. Aluminum wheels is one of many reasons that I do use ceramic. I don't know if I have ever mentioned this reason before. Usually I only mention the smooth/quiet braking without having any issues during winter or summer(extreme (((COLD))) & ~HOT~) with lots of slush and salt.

The only reason I scored the CT-3's 3*(a very good score by the way) was due to...I had to bench grind the tips(top/bottom) in order to fit into the brakes "hold down slots" and their initial bite after installation as they seemed to need bedding in more so than the others, about 3 days worth of driving. Same with the Raybestos. They just didn't fit correctly without some grinding! But, once they were installed and fit properly and the brakes seated, they were fine, smooth and quiet without any complaints. This is the only reason!

Their fit, without reworking them just a bit just wasn't as good as the others in both cases(Bendix/Raybestos). Otherwise they were fine brakes.

Most ceramic pads that I install don't seem to need any bedding in. Or if they do, it's just nothing that I have ever noticed. Just drive as normal and they always feel fine from the get go.

The CT-3's box even stated something like..."good braking from the very first stop"...Or something to that effect! And it just didn't seem to be this way. Each application is different as you know.

And for anyone that is interested in why I scored the Akebono's a 5 * is for their smooth/quiet operation and perfect fit. Almost creamy smooth! The smoothest/quietest brakes I have ever used to this day and it's been 4 years and they still feel like the day they were installed. They're on a Lexus(which could be why) but, feel even better than the OE. As far as braking power/bite, the Akebono feel the same which is to say, very good. They'll need a replacement soon though and I may throw on a set F & R before winter. I may start buying Ceramic pads by price now that my opinion is as high as it is for them

Every replacement brake pad that I have used, claims that they are "Application Specific Friction" so, each application will feel a bit different. That particular Corolla's braking was never great with any type of friction material. The Corolla was a good car that just went about it's business, never calling much attention to itself. The Corolla's brake pedal was a bit "TOYOTA MUSHY" but the car stopped fine.

One more ceramic pad that I have used and forgot to mention earlier is...Satisfied Brand. I'd give'em 4 stars! They went on easily and lasted as long as the others without any issues til they wore out.

I hope this has helped to answar you question. It's all application based as you know. If you like the Bendix CT-3's, stay with'em! Unless you just want to try others. Like I mentioned, I may buy by price now! Which can I get for less money based on my personal experience.

Good luck,
CB
 
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby

One more ceramic pad that I have used and forgot to mention earlier is...Satisfied Brand. I'd give'em 4 stars! They went on easily and lasted as long as the others without any issues til they wore out.


Satisfied is also a supplier for other brands. I put Satisfied (made in Canada) on the rear of my Hyundai and they seem to have performed well. I got a really good price on them from JC Whitney.

But, Satisfied is having some problems. They have filed for backruptcy and Affinia (owner of Raybestos) has sued Satisfied claiming they stole trade secrets about pad materials. A court has blocked Satisfied from selling in the US.
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: Char Baby

One more ceramic pad that I have used and forgot to mention earlier is...Satisfied Brand. I'd give'em 4 stars! They went on easily and lasted as long as the others without any issues til they wore out.


Satisfied is also a supplier for other brands. I put Satisfied (made in Canada) on the rear of my Hyundai and they seem to have performed well. I got a really good price on them from JC Whitney.

But, Satisfied is having some problems. They have filed for backruptcy and Affinia (owner of Raybestos) has sued Satisfied claiming they stole trade secrets about pad materials. A court has blocked Satisfied from selling in the US.


I had heard things about Satisfied recently about them going out of business. I'll have to look on the Tire Rack to see it they're still selling them
 
also just to clarify

from my observations, it seems semi metallics eat rotors more then ceramics... I think someone said it the other way around earlier..... but it could also be very platform or brand specific.

I don't notice wagner thermoqueit semi metallics eating rotors that badly. But I do notice a lot of OEM Chrysler and European cars doing it.....
 
38sho said:
also just to clarify

from my observations, it seems semi metallics eat rotors more then ceramics... I think someone said it the other way around earlier..... but it could also be very platform or brand specific.

I don't notice wagner thermoqueit semi metallics eating rotors that badly. But I do notice a lot of OEM Chrysler and European cars doing it.....

I agree! My rotor wear has gone down since using caramic pads on my vehilces mainly, the rotor warpage due to excessive heat as well as the grooving or deep grooving. And, I beleive that it is vehicle specific also but, I must have the right vehicles.

Most brake manufactures say in their literature..."ceramic pads create less heat" or "dissapate heat more quickly" and..."are more rotor friendly". This seems to be the case in my situation.

I first moved over to ceramic pads due to the "less rotor wear" but, found many other benefits that I also liked...They were only a little more money over semi-mets, cleaner wheels, more consistant braking feel, no noises that I have heard in any weather, temp or braking situation, not even when braking down hill in the wet, hard emergency stops etc.

I've have just never been happier with brakes as I am today using ceramic pads. This is my experience!
 
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Originally Posted By: offroadrider12
Ceramic ... rotors wear quicker

Semi-metallic ... rotors wear less

You have it ... backwards?
 
Originally Posted By: glum
Originally Posted By: offroadrider12
Ceramic ... rotors wear quicker

Semi-metallic ... rotors wear less

You have it ... backwards?


What about warping of the rotor ceramic vs semi-metallic?
 
Ceramics are easier on new rotors.

Last week, I installed new Wearever(Advanced Auto) rotors and ceramic pads on my sons 03 Monte Carlo SS and they work very well.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: glum
Originally Posted By: offroadrider12
Ceramic ... rotors wear quicker

Semi-metallic ... rotors wear less

You have it ... backwards?


What about warping of the rotor ceramic vs semi-metallic?


The warping of rotors is what I am refering to when I talk about rotor wear. And some deep grooving too, which render the rotors useless and non turnable on a brake lathe.

Also, here in the NE, the winter salt rusts/corrodes the steel so badly that the rotors are too pitted/goudged from salt to turn them. Besides, the price of what most places want to turn rotors, I'd rather put that money toward new rotors and throw away the old ones.

I have had rotors turned in the past(since the 80's) and then the rotors warp again in 6 months. Many years ago when rotors were thicker and heat treated better or used better steel, you could have rotors turned twice(if you kept the car long enough). IMHO, todays rotors for cars are throw away rotors. Unless you live where there is no salt and the rotors can seriously take the heat.

Most of the brake jobs that I do today on our own daily drivers, when the rotors are warped, if I could save them and turn them, I find that I have to pound the rotor off the hup using a 4lb sledge hammer as even a puller isn't budging them. So, I have to beat them in order to remove them rendering them usless after I'm done. Can't turn'em now!

When I install new rotors, I put on Never-Seize all over the hub so that I never have this problem again. But, I'm not pulling apart a new car to do this although I should. By the time I do the first brakd job on a new car, everything is so rusty and often frozen due to lack of brake lube that I often have to replace sliders and now and again, a caliper. I have spun off a bleeder on a 3-4 year old cars caliper due to being rusty/frozen
 
I guess I should have mentioned that also, I get less grooving(however deep the grooving may be) when using ceramic pads compared to the simi-mets. Although I may still get some grooving on the rotors when using ceramic pads, the grooving looks more similar to an old record album(LP)after the machining/cross hatches/brushing is gone, compared to semi-mets deep grooving(often beyond turning). This is my experience!

I have to admit, that I have had lot's of cheap cars that were poorly made and the brake systems were also made cheaply. So, the cheapest pads and rotors were all that I put on these cheap cars. Sometimes/maybe on these cheap cars 1st brake job, I'd put on better stuff but, over the years what I discovered was, it didn't matter on how much/little money I spent, nothing lasted and everything warped/rotted at the same "rate".

Here's an example...Most of the early 80's Dodge/Plymouth-Omni/Horizon and K-Cars were this way from my experience. It didn't matter if I used the "so called" better Bendix/Raybestos rotors(~$40 +) costing twice the price of the cheap WearEver or AAP rotors(~$18-$20), the warpage and wearout time was the same(~2 yrs). I never tried ceramic pads on these cars as I had never heard of them at that time. Organic, semi-mets or asbestos were all I had ever heard of as-far-as friction material. That was all I knew!
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I don't know what else was available back then or even further back years ago.

Gotta love the internet! It's a wonderful source of information and a great learning tool.
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