Brake pad construction causes problems?

[Jimmy9190]

I have a post here a couple weeks ago, I have this metallic clicking-tapping noise when I press my brake pedal. It only happens once, it's not a repetetive click-click-click noise and I only hear it when braking at slow speeds, such as driving through my neighborhood or in a parking lot or when slowing down to stop at a red light. The noise happens as soon as I touch the brake pedal.

I read online last night other people have this same problem, and it is from the pads moving and shifting in the calipers because they don't fit tightly. Most people said new pads and/or rotors fixed it.

I am posting to see if anyone has had problems like this and see if anyone has found differences in the pyhsical construction and shape of their pads and backing plates themselves that causes or casused noise or other wierd problems. I am not talking about the pad material causing excessive dust or anything, I just want to see if anyone has had to change to a diffeent manufacturer because of odd noise problems like this one.

The pads on my truck now are Wearever Silver from AAP. They have about 12,000 miles on them now and I had no noise at all from them until 2 weeks ago. My truck brakes fine, stops with no pedal pulsation, chatter, brake fade or any other problems. Just this irritating click noise. Pads have plenty of meat left on them. I removed the pads and calipers 2 weeks ago, cleaned and re-greased the slide pins and slide surfaces on the steering knuckle and I put a nice coat of caliper grease on the back sides of the pads, and the noise went away for a couple of days then came back. It isn't any louder than it was when it first started but it is back and I want to fix it. Permanently.

I was thinking of trying a set of Duralast pads or maybe a set of the better Napa pads to see if it cures this noise. Any info is appreciated very much.

 

[Billbert]

Try replacing the brake hardware kit. That is what holds the pads in place.

 

[motorguy222]

Does it seem to come from one side? If so,it could be a sticking caliper.

 

[Warstud]

The aftermarket pads may not fit in the bracket like the OEM. Some tabs aren't as wide as others but make it easier to install... but they shift back and forth as you apply your brakes.

 

[mechtech2]

Same answer as your last post about this.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks for the replies. The noise doesn't shift from one side to the other, and the brakes don't pull to either side. I think the calipers are OK. It stops great and in a straight line, has a good firm pedal and has no other noises or problems.

It doesn't always make the noise, not that I can hear anyway. Seems like it happens 75% of the time. I honestly don't know how to fix it. I think I might order a new set of anti-rattle springs from the dealer. The new Chinese-made Cardone calipers that I bought at AAP and installed back in January came with new anti-rattle clips, and I installed those too, along with the new calipers and pads. Maybe the cheap made in China anti-rattle clips are too loose now and they don't hold the outside pads tight anymore. Maybe that's it. New clips should not cost that much at the Dodge dealer. I'll give them a call tomorrow.

Thanks for the help here.

 

[Jimmy9190]

I ordered a new set of anti-rattle clips from the Dodge dealer on Monday, and picked them up yesterday, $5.08 each. They look exactly like the clips that I already had on the brakes. The old ones "felt like" they might have been a bit more flimsy and there was a degree of movement in the outboard pad on both front wheels with the old clips still installed. I could grab the ears on the pad and wiggle it side to side about 1/16 of an inch.

I installed the new clips tonight and the outboard pads are tight, I could not wiggle or move them at all with the new anti-rattle clips installed. I was hopeful that I had solved the problem, but no such luck. On my test drive, the noise was still there, and it is no louder and no quieter than before. It sounds like a hard metallic tap, like one hard surface striking a metal surface. This is what makes me think it's the pads shifting around too much. I only hear the noise one time, when I fist press the brake pedal with my foot when driving slowly, like in a parking lot or when approaching a stop sign in my neighborhood. It is not a repetitive tap-tap-tap noise.

I am thinking new pads will be the next least expensive remedy to try. The Wearever pads have a warranty but I doubt it covers something like this. Even if it did, I'd probably have the same problem again in another 12,000 miles with another set of Wearever pads. I am thinking of trying Autozone Duralast pads. I have had not one bit of trouble with the Duralast pads on my gf's Honda.

If anyone has any other ideas on this, I would appreciate it very much.

 

[firefighter]

You can get pads, that come with spacers to clip on the end of the pad to take up the space from wear. I think raybestos is one. they come with a little bag of clips with numbers on, I think from .oo5"-.020" and you clip them on so the pad is loaded in the direction of rotation. If your noise is pad shift this will fix it.

 

[doitmyself]

The fact that you said the noise went away for a few days after you cleaned and re lubed everything seems to point to pad/caliper interface problem.

Maybe a more substantial, high solids(> 40%)moly paste might mask the noise better.

Another tip, from experience....take off the blinders. Sometimes preconceived notions keeps us fixated on the wrong problem/solution. Did you check that "area" for other possible problems? In particular, front suspension wear: worn tie rod end, ball joint, bushings, etc. that might cause a click/clunk when braking.

Does it happen in reverse or when turning?

Good luck.

 

[Jimmy9190]

It happens in reverse, turning, going straight. It happens about 75% of the time (when I am going slow enough to hear it anyway).

I have done a lot of work on the front end in the last year or so: new upper and lower ball joints, new stabilizer bar end links and stabilizer bar bushings, the outer tie rods have about 50K on them, they are Moog replacement parts, I replaced the inner tie rods 3 months ago with Duralast parts, the shocks have about 35K on them, they are Monroe Reflex, and these calipers, pads and rotors all have about 12K on them. Calipers are Cardone reman, brake rotors and pads are Wearever, all from AAP. I replaced them all back in January. I replaced both calipers because one caliper had a piston with a hairline crack in it, I found that one day when I had pulled the pads to put anti-squeal compound on them. I bled the front brakes here at home, then 2 weeks later I had a BG brake fluid power flush done on all 4 wheels at a shop down the street.

The noise just started about 2 weeks ago. Everything in the front end was fine before that. Everything else on the truck is still fine, too. It brakes very well and in a straight line, no pedal pulsation or brake fade, the brake pedal is firm like it should be.

I think that there has to be some correlation with some of the pad material wearing off with 12K miles of use and the pads shifting in the calipers. I have never had this brake tap noise before on this or any other truck or car I have owned. And I have owned this truck since January 2006 and have put nearly 100,000 miles on it.

I'll spend $30.00 on a set of new pads and try those. If it still has noise after that, I'll see what AAP can do for me on the warranty and swap out the calipers and rotors too.

I read online a lot of others have had this problem, on lots of different kinds of vehicles, and most of them said the dealers or tire shops/mechanics all said it was the pads moving in the calipers and it was "normal". I don't buy that. I never had this noise before and I think there may be a problem with these slightly worn pads not fitting tightly in the caliper.

The only other thing out of the ordinary I noticed was 2 weeks ago when I cleaned and greased everything trying to fix the noise problem, the caliper slid right off the pads. I didn't have to back the piston down with a C-clamp to remove the caliper off the pads and steering knuckle. Maybe the pistons are a little too loose and they back up a little until I hit the brake and the piston hits the metal backs of the pads and causes the tap noise. I would think if that were the case I would have problems getting the truck stopped though. I have heard of caliper pistons being seized and stuck, but never heard of a piston being too loose. I guess it could happen. My pistons looked OK the other day when I had it all apart to clean and grease everything.

Come to think of it, it could be the calipers have loose pistons. I say that because the pedal is sometimes a just a little softer when I first get started driving after the truck sits, and that is when the noise is most prevalent. After I drive and stop a few times, the pedal is firmer and the noise does not happen nearly as often then. If I drive without needing the brakes and then stop in a parking lot or something, the pedal can be softer and then noise comes back.

I have no idea what the real problem is. There are no problems with the brakes as far as performance. They work fine no matter if the pedal is firm or just a little soft, and there is no brake fade or pedal slowly going to the floor so I really don't think it's a master cylinder problem either.

I am no brake expert by any means and the problem is very aggravating. So I appreciate the help here. The brakes are the most important system on the truck so I really want to find out what is wrong and fix it.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[KrisZ]

I have exactly the same problem as you do Jimmy on my Mazda 3.
About a month ago I put a set of new rotors and Bendix pads. The pads came with shims already attached, just like OEM ones, I lubed everything, including the back of pads.

Everything was OK for about 2 weeks, after that I got this one click/tap that I hear when going slowly. I noticed it doesn't happen as often in the morning when the brakes are cold and happens more frequently towards the end of my commute as the pads are warm.

I did notice that the OEM pads had to be wiggled out, while the Bendix ones just slid right in and were a bit loose. Also for me it seems that the tap only happens on the driver's side and not the passenger side.

Brakes work great, nothing is sticking, I checked the calipers and they float freely, but this tap is getting annoying.

 

[doitmyself]

Slightly related to your problems, here is a tech. article I dug up on my daughter's Escort that talks about brake noises and too much slop in the caliper/pad fittings, shims, pins, etc..

Just FYI: www.mightyautoparts.com/pdf/articles/tt101.pdf

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks for the info and replies. I picked up a set of Duralast pads at Autozone after work today. Price was $25.00 and they look to be a much better constructed pad than the Wearever Silver pads I have now. I am going from memory here but the Duralast pads seem to be heavier, I think the backing plate is thicker and even the box they came in was bigger than what I remember from the Wearever pads. The Duralast also have something I don't remember seeing on the Wearever pads--they have shims, which look to be very well attached. Maybe the shims will help with the noise. Maybe the Wearever pads were supposed to have shims and I didn't know it or notice it.

I hope this is the solution to the brake tap noise problem. I didn't get home in time tonight to get into the brakes, I am planning on swapping the pads tomorrow after work. I will compare the 2 different pads and maybe post pics of what I find tomorrow if there is a need for it.

Incidentally, the Duralast pads say "Made in India" on the box. IIRC the Wearever pads were made in China. While the Duralast may not be made here at home in the USA, I have to wonder if the Chinese made pads are just no good, and I really hope the Duralast pads from India do the trick on this noise. I understand we have a global economy now and I really don't care if the new Duralast pads were made in the left-field corner of Timbuktu, as long as they work well and get rid of this stupid and aggravating noise.

Thanks.

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I have exactly the same problem as you do Jimmy on my Mazda 3.
About a month ago I put a set of new rotors and Bendix pads. The pads came with shims already attached, just like OEM ones, I lubed everything, including the back of pads.

Everything was OK for about 2 weeks, after that I got this one click/tap that I hear when going slowly. I noticed it doesn't happen as often in the morning when the brakes are cold and happens more frequently towards the end of my commute as the pads are warm.

I did notice that the OEM pads had to be wiggled out, while the Bendix ones just slid right in and were a bit loose. Also for me it seems that the tap only happens on the driver's side and not the passenger side.

Brakes work great, nothing is sticking, I checked the calipers and they float freely, but this tap is getting annoying.




I too notice a bit of noise(click-click) in my daughters '06 Mazda 3i 2.0L. It is not as bothersome to her nor I as what you guys are talking about but, I hate her brakes. Too noisy when applied but they do have good bite. Always sounds like metal-to-metal contact even though all F&R pads are beefy. Only slightly quieter after a few stops. The click-click has just started also. In the spring I want to change all four corners to Ceramic pads with 4 new rotors. I'll search for rotors/pads in the mean time.

 

[Jimmy9190]

I didn't get to the job until this afternoon. I swapped out the AAP Wearever brake pads for the AZ $25.99 Duralast pads and am very happy to say the click-pop noise is gone. I went on about a 15 mile round trip test drive, made a lot of stops at different stores, stopped to eat dinner, went to the grocery store and drove in several different parking lots and did some slow-driving on the street and never heard that noise, not even once.

The Duralast pads are definitely better quality than the Wearever pads. They are heavier, have a thicker backing plate, the mounting clips are better quality and hold the pad to the caliper tighter and they have shims which I believe will stop or at least greatly reduce the chance of any noise in the future. Here's a few pics:

New Duralast pads compared side by side to the old Wearever pads:



Duralast pads with a couple coats of CRC stop-squeal spray:



Pads mounted and caliper bolted back on the knuckle. I left the anti-rattle spring off for clarity:





I think the old Wearever pads were either too small and/or just did not fit the caliper correctly. I believe these new brake pads are much better quality and they will not have any noise at all.

I have an idea that AAP may be selling lesser-quality parts now so they can justify offering all their online discount codes and send out coupons in the mail with their sales flyer. I think some parts will be the same made in China junk no matter where you buy it. I have not had any problem at all with Duralast brake pads and have had no trouble with the Duralast inner tie rods and upper ball joints on my truck either.

Maybe new pads will solve the brake pop noise problem for KrisZ and anyone else with the same problem.

Thanks for the help here.