Brake fluid quality differences?

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Some drivers do not care if "better" fluid will do anything for their cars, but they like the "feel good" for spending extra.

Similar to drivers who spend extra for higher grade fuel, 93 octane instead of 87 octane, than what the car needs because it feels good.


Ah, yes. The technical vs the personable.

 

[nleksan]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
Ever boiled your brake fluid while driving?
Ever had corroded brake parts even though your changed fluid regularly?

If you answer no to the questions why would you need "better" brake fluid than what the OEM calls for?


Actually, yes to #1. It was on a track granted but it scared me enough. Plus it was with a 6piston/4piston f/r BBK, so the braking power was there and with floating 2pc vented rotors and brake cooling ducts, so was the natural cooling.

I know that is something that will not happen to 99% of drivers, but I figure that by at least sticking with OEM fluid or better, that last 1% is safer and consequently, so is the other 99%.

I just do not consider safety to be a place where it is acceptable to be cheap. Especially on the road, where other people's safety is at risk just as much.

 

[HTSS_TR]

If I track my S2000 I will be using the best DOT-4 or DOT-5.1 brake fluid with highest boiling point I can get my hand on. Since you may track your car(s) sometimes then you're using the highest boiling point brake justifies your usage.

But since I don't track it, I see no reason to use any DOT-3 brake fluid for normal every driving. Never had boiling brake fluid in any of my cars.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: nleksan
Originally Posted By: tom slick
Ever boiled your brake fluid while driving?
Ever had corroded brake parts even though your changed fluid regularly?

If you answer no to the questions why would you need "better" brake fluid than what the OEM calls for?


Actually, yes to #1. It was on a track granted but it scared me enough. Plus it was with a 6piston/4piston f/r BBK, so the braking power was there and with floating 2pc vented rotors and brake cooling ducts, so was the natural cooling.

I know that is something that will not happen to 99% of drivers, but I figure that by at least sticking with OEM fluid or better, that last 1% is safer and consequently, so is the other 99%.

I just do not consider safety to be a place where it is acceptable to be cheap. Especially on the road, where other people's safety is at risk just as much.


Agreed; I've never boiled the fluid in any of my track rats, but every six months they all get a fresh change of ATE Super Blue Racing DOT4...

 

[nleksan]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If I track my S2000 I will be using the best DOT-4 or DOT-5.1 brake fluid with highest boiling point I can get my hand on. Since you may track your car(s) sometimes then you're using the highest boiling point brake justifies your usage.

But since I don't track it, I see no reason to use any DOT-3 brake fluid for normal every driving. Never had boiling brake fluid in any of my cars.


I do track my 328 regularly, both road course and autocross (hence the BBK), but the 325 and 740 are street cars (although it would be kinda fun to supercharge the 740, bore/stroke from 4.4 to 4.6l or more, and all the suspension/brakes stuff and show up at a track in a luxery barge).

I am not trying to flame or anything like that, simply express my opinion. Granted, the people on here likely are not going to let their brake fluid turn to water (figuratively), but I worry about the general population. I know people who have put 120k on their car thinking brake fluid was lifetime (Mercedes E430 in this example), and even a few who did not even know that brake fluid existed! That is the kind of stuff that scares me.
I don't want a person like that behind me if I have to do a panic stop on the highway from 75mph to 0.

The way I see it is, while driving on the public roads, my brakes are only as good as the person's in front of me and behind me. It doesn't matter if I.can stop from.60mph in 100ft if it takes either of them 200ft at the same speed.

Does my viewpoint seem to make more sense now?

(PS: it was actually "the track" that gave me so much more respect for the road, including other drivers and such. going from HPDE's like performance driving schools and defensive driving schools to autocrossing to road course racing taught me more about my own limitations and the necessity of safety than anything else could have. I know that when I have kids starting to drive, they will be taking similar "schools" as I wish I had when I was that much younger)

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If I track my S2000 I will be using the best DOT-4 or DOT-5.1 brake fluid with highest boiling point I can get my hand on. Since you may track your car(s) sometimes then you're using the highest boiling point brake justifies your usage.

But since I don't track it, I see no reason to use any DOT-3 brake fluid for normal every driving. Never had boiling brake fluid in any of my cars.


My Toyotas spec DOT 3 - but I put DOT 4 in them.

My Volvos and the MB spec DOT 4 - so that's what they get.

This way, I only have one kind of fluid to keep on the shelf...and the truck & Corolla have a safety margin on brake temp above the factory spec fluid...

I have cooked the brakes on a car, normal driving, state highways in Utah, coming down a long set of mountain grades, I was young, and didn't know they could be overheated so easily...and when the pedal went to the floor, I pulled the trans into "low" and pumped for my life, bringing the car to an eventual stop...granted, it was years ago...but I would rather have the extra temp margin in case I, or one of my family, is driving in similar circumstances in the future...

 

[tom slick]

Do you guys think LucasDK is taking his HiAce out on track days?

I agree that when any component (fluids, tires, suspension, brakes) isn't standing up to your conditions then you need to upgrade. If everything works fine for your conditions there is no reason to "upgrade" when there is zero benefit.

 

[sciphi]

I'd use a name-brand fluid and call it a day.

Our Honda got Honda-branded brake fluid. Considering it was changed at the 2.5 year mark and one bottle was sufficient for bleeding the system, there's no reason for me to use anything else.

 

[SS1970chrysler]

Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I use Valvoline DOT 3 & 4 brake fluid.

I use that in all my antique/classic cars. In my experience, it seems to last years longer before turning nasty and causing damage.

 

[3311]

Valvoline dot3/4 for me as well in all my vehicles. Holds up well in my 7500 which is brutal on brakes.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: nleksan
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If I track my S2000 I will be using the best DOT-4 or DOT-5.1 brake fluid with highest boiling point I can get my hand on. Since you may track your car(s) sometimes then you're using the highest boiling point brake fluid justifies your usage.

But since I don't track it, I see no reason to not use any DOT-3 brake fluid for normal every driving. Never had boiling brake fluid in any of my cars.


I do track my 328 regularly, both road course and autocross (hence the BBK), but the 325 and 740 are street cars (although it would be kinda fun to supercharge the 740, bore/stroke from 4.4 to 4.6l or more, and all the suspension/brakes stuff and show up at a track in a luxery barge).

I am not trying to flame or anything like that, simply express my opinion. Granted, the people on here likely are not going to let their brake fluid turn to water (figuratively), but I worry about the general population. I know people who have put 120k on their car thinking brake fluid was lifetime (Mercedes E430 in this example), and even a few who did not even know that brake fluid existed! That is the kind of stuff that scares me.
I don't want a person like that behind me if I have to do a panic stop on the highway from 75mph to 0.

The way I see it is, while driving on the public roads, my brakes are only as good as the person's in front of me and behind me. It doesn't matter if I.can stop from.60mph in 100ft if it takes either of them 200ft at the same speed.

Does my viewpoint seem to make more sense now?

(PS: it was actually "the track" that gave me so much more respect for the road, including other drivers and such. going from HPDE's like performance driving schools and defensive driving schools to autocrossing to road course racing taught me more about my own limitations and the necessity of safety than anything else could have. I know that when I have kids starting to drive, they will be taking similar "schools" as I wish I had when I was that much younger)

This is uncalled for.

 

[nleksan]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: nleksan
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If I track my S2000 I will be using the best DOT-4 or DOT-5.1 brake fluid with highest boiling point I can get my hand on. Since you may track your car(s) sometimes then you're using the highest boiling point brake fluid justifies your usage.

But since I don't track it, I see no reason to not use any DOT-3 brake fluid for normal every driving. Never had boiling brake fluid in any of my cars.


I do track my 328 regularly, both road course and autocross (hence the BBK), but the 325 and 740 are street cars (although it would be kinda fun to supercharge the 740, bore/stroke from 4.4 to 4.6l or more, and all the suspension/brakes stuff and show up at a track in a luxery barge).

I am not trying to flame or anything like that, simply express my opinion. Granted, the people on here likely are not going to let their brake fluid turn to water (figuratively), but I worry about the general population. I know people who have put 120k on their car thinking brake fluid was lifetime (Mercedes E430 in this example), and even a few who did not even know that brake fluid existed! That is the kind of stuff that scares me.
I don't want a person like that behind me if I have to do a panic stop on the highway from 75mph to 0.

The way I see it is, while driving on the public roads, my brakes are only as good as the person's in front of me and behind me. It doesn't matter if I.can stop from.60mph in 100ft if it takes either of them 200ft at the same speed.

Does my viewpoint seem to make more sense now?

(PS: it was actually "the track" that gave me so much more respect for the road, including other drivers and such. going from HPDE's like performance driving schools and defensive driving schools to autocrossing to road course racing taught me more about my own limitations and the necessity of safety than anything else could have. I know that when I have kids starting to drive, they will be taking similar "schools" as I wish I had when I was that much younger)

This is uncalled for.



Haha, I'm sorry, I was in no way referring to you AT ALL! I swear! It was a guy I knew years ago, got the car from his parents, and never did anything besides MAYBE an oil change every 15-20k.
The reason I specified what type of car is that it demonstrates what could happen with a big, 2-ton, heavily-/solidly-built machine were to lose braking power at highway speeds, as well as to show that sometimes an expensive car can result in people taking WORSE care of it than others with much less expensive rides.

I didn't even realize you had an E430 until you posted this...

Haha, seriously though, that's my bad. It was NOT aimed at you in ANY way!!!

 

[HTSS_TR]

It's okay. Sorry for misunderstood.

I saw many performance/luxury cars at the garage I had my car in for some maintenance, have 8-10 years old or older OEM brake fluid in the master cylinder, the fluid color was like black ink, similar color for PSF. Owners don't want to spend $50-60 to change those fluids every few years. To them if the brake system and power steering works why change the fluid.

The mechanic recommended changing those fluid sometimes, but almost all customers refused.

 

[shpankey]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
Ever boiled your brake fluid while driving?
Ever had corroded brake parts even though your changed fluid regularly?

If you answer no to the questions why would you need "better" brake fluid than what the OEM calls for?

I guarantee it will only happen to you once. You'll either be dead or you will never leave it to chance again and get the really good stuff and change it out appropriately.

 

[nleksan]

Originally Posted By: shpankey
Originally Posted By: tom slick
Ever boiled your brake fluid while driving?
Ever had corroded brake parts even though your changed fluid regularly?

If you answer no to the questions why would you need "better" brake fluid than what the OEM calls for?

I guarantee it will only happen to you once. You'll either be dead or you will never leave it to chance again and get the really good stuff and change it out appropriately.


Amen!

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: nleksan
I know that when I have kids starting to drive, they will be taking similar "schools" as I wish I had when I was that much younger)


Smart man. I sent my son to the two-day Teen School at the BMW Performance Center as well as one of the Street Survival schools that the BMW Car Club conducts. I believed that he really needed to attend the Street Performance school because it allowed him to learn how his daily driver 2002 performed in emergency situations and at the limit. The only down side is that he now wants to attend an HPDE as soon as he turns 18- although that may be due to the fact that he's been hanging out with me at the track since he was 13...

 

[LucasDK]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
Do you guys think LucasDK is taking his HiAce out on track days?


You are right. It is a van with a 78 HP diesel engine. It goes 145 km/h tops and usually it is driven in a country where the highest mountain/hill is 170 m: Thus very few long descends.

Lucas

 

[Mark_S]

Originally Posted By: LucasDK
Hi,

I need a DOT4 brake fluid and was wondering if there are quality differences depending on brands: You can get very cheap Walmart-like brake fluids or more expensive Castrol etc brake fluids ... all still DOT4.

What is your opinion?

Lucas



All are supposed to meet minimum specs. The question is, will the bottle you pick off the shelf do that? Did the company who produced it have control over their processes? How confident are you that the company produced their product as specified, and you are getting it? In the absence of data on what you select, it comes down to how confident you feel.

 

[VWguy]

Lucas, your question raises my curiosity regarding brake fluid. We know that the USA sees different lubricants than our European brothers see. Wonder about brake fluids. Personally here in SoCal I have used Castrol's LMA dot 3/4, Valvoline's dot 3, Chevron's dot 3, and Autozone's HD dot 3. And having worked for a gov't agency for 2 decades as a auto tech they used the Wagner and now Johnson brake fluids. All have worked well here.
I am curious, I believe I read somewhere that most auto mfg's spec a dot 3 brake fluid on their later cars/trucks as in an ABS system the dot 3 is thinner and flows better thru the valving of the ABS unit. But, I think an exception is some euro mfg's, ie: vw, spec a dot 4 for their cars.

Funny but true story. 25 years ago I am working at buggy shop in San Diego County and a customer wants us to use "his" brake fluid during repairs. He was employed at a military installation and this brake fluid was Dot 5. I bleed for hours and could not achieve a decent pedal. Threw my hands up in disgust not knowing what was happening,