Brake Fluid Change

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I'll be that guy too. I never flush it either. A well designed brake system is sealed. How is water to get in there? Never understood that. One thing I will say though, I live in flatland USA, I was just out in California and with all the hills, if I lived there.....I probably would flush it.
 
Originally Posted by Kestas
A Google search reveals it isn't the presence of water so much as the anti-corrosion properties of the brake fluid that get depleted.

I'm not sure I buy that. After anti-corrosion properties are depleted, then what IS the corrosion mechanism?


Leached copper from lines. That's what I have been saying! It attacks the brake system components. I think you may have not searched too much
 
You just explained how copper gets depleted in the system. I understand that part from my google search. I've never experienced pinhole leaks from inside out in the bundy tubing. So how does iron oxide form on the cast iron caliper bore?... how does the leached copper attack the components?
 
Changed the original 14 year old brake fluid in my 2005 Tacoma (only 50K miles) today. Didn't see any signs of any corrosion or debris in the brake fluid. See photo of old fluid caught after bleeding the right rear wheel. It was just slightly darker than the new Prestone DOT 3 I used for the flush. Uploaded via cell phone so photo wants to post only in landscape orientation.

[Linked Image]
 
Both photos without camera flash, just garage lighting.

Original fluid before changing.
[Linked Image]



New fluid, Prestone DOT 3.
[Linked Image]
 
Always good to get the old fluid out of there. I was having brake fade on my old S10 and decided to flush the old nasty fluid out. This is what came out:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Needless to say my brake fade went away after fresh fluid was in the system.

Zee, too bad you don't have the TRD package with the electronic booster. You can bleed that system quickly; just turn the ignition on, open bleeder, and hold down the pedal. It'll keep pumping fluid, just have to keep an eye on the level. Obviously you have to have a helper with the bleed screw, but still an easy system.
 
Originally Posted by Delta
Always good to get the old fluid out of there. I was having brake fade on my old S10 and decided to flush the old nasty fluid out. This is what came out:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Needless to say my brake fade went away after fresh fluid was in the system.

Zee, too bad you don't have the TRD package with the electronic booster. You can bleed that system quickly; just turn the ignition on, open bleeder, and hold down the pedal. It'll keep pumping fluid, just have to keep an eye on the level. Obviously you have to have a helper with the bleed screw, but still an easy system.


Wow, that old brake fluids looks nasty. How old was it?

My 2005 Tacoma is a TRD, but it just has regular ABS without the VSC (vehicle stability control) system. Toyota manual shows to bleed the brakes the old fashioned way.

My original brake fluid looked almost new, even though 14 years old. But the truck only has 50K miles and the brakes are rarely used hard. I changed it just because of the time, not how it looked and not knowing how much moisture might have been in the fluid that old. I don't think brake fluid changes color based on moisture content.
 
Originally Posted by Kestas
You just explained how copper gets depleted in the system. I understand that part from my google search. I've never experienced pinhole leaks from inside out in the bundy tubing. So how does iron oxide form on the cast iron caliper bore?... how does the leached copper attack the components?


It is my understanding that it is the moisture in brake fluid that makes it corrosive to the copper and other elements in the brake system. I really don't think Phoenix is totally forthright in their information on their website. They are trying to sell test strips that are based upon detecting dissolved copper in the brake fluid. If they tell you that moisture is the root cause behind the copper being in the brake fluid, then why not use a less expensive method to measure moisture in the fluid, instead of their litmus strips.

Water or copper, it is still important to change brake fluid regularly. There are all kinds of auto maintenance items that have been neglected on cars for decades. It doesn't make it right. I'll still do what will keep my car on the road for hundreds of thousands of miles. Because that's how I'm wired.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Wow, that old brake fluids looks nasty. How old was it?

My 2005 Tacoma is a TRD, but it just has regular ABS without the VSC (vehicle stability control) system. Toyota manual shows to bleed the brakes the old fashioned way.

My original brake fluid looked almost new, even though 14 years old. But the truck only has 50K miles and the brakes are rarely used hard. I changed it just because of the time, not how it looked and not knowing how much moisture might have been in the fluid that old. I don't think brake fluid changes color based on moisture content.


Honestly no clue how old it was, but it was definitely a passed over item. The fluid in the Liberty looked the same when I flushed it a couple months ago...

And doing a little research, apparently the TRD trucks got a couple upgrades in 2009. Electric brake booster, more "advanced" VSC, etc. so that would explain why yours doesn't have it.
 
Usually brake fluid looks a bit darker at the caliper, it seems to me, and usually the pedal firms up a bit after a change. Not sure why.

The stuff that comes out of my '99 Camry is green. I've pulled fluid a couple of times and it's starting to lighten up, but a couple years ago it was rather green. It's gotten some reman calipers now so hopefully next time it won't be so bad.
 
Originally Posted by BHopkins
Originally Posted by Kestas
You just explained how copper gets depleted in the system. I understand that part from my google search. I've never experienced pinhole leaks from inside out in the bundy tubing. So how does iron oxide form on the cast iron caliper bore?... how does the leached copper attack the components?


It is my understanding that it is the moisture in brake fluid that makes it corrosive to the copper and other elements in the brake system. I really don't think Phoenix is totally forthright in their information on their website. They are trying to sell test strips that are based upon detecting dissolved copper in the brake fluid. If they tell you that moisture is the root cause behind the copper being in the brake fluid, then why not use a less expensive method to measure moisture in the fluid, instead of their litmus strips.

Water or copper, it is still important to change brake fluid regularly. There are all kinds of auto maintenance items that have been neglected on cars for decades. It doesn't make it right. I'll still do what will keep my car on the road for hundreds of thousands of miles. Because that's how I'm wired.


And brake fluid manufacturers/suppliers, countless auto service techs and shops, dealers, etc. make no money on selling brake fluid and flushing services? They have no motive?

Someone here said they paid about $200 for a brake flush. That's a lot more profit than from selling some test strips.

Good luck in maintaining your hoopties!
 
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
FWIW, I've driven 3 vehicles beyond 300K miles and never flushed brake fluid in any of them. My current pickup is at 195K. Never had an issue.


Awesome!
 
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
FWIW, I've driven 3 vehicles beyond 300K miles and never flushed brake fluid in any of them. My current pickup is at 195K. Never had an issue.


I never rotate my tires.
I never change differential fluid.
I never change power steering fluid.
I never replace wiper blades on my cars.
I never wax my cars.


There are a lot of auto maintenance items that are never done by members here on BITOG. You know, the website dedicated to providing knowledge on how to properly do preventative maintenance on a car.
27.gif


We all have different expectations out of our cars, don't we.
 
I don't flush the lines but do extract the old and refill once a year. Never had any issues in 25 yrs doing it that way.
 
Originally Posted by supton
The stuff that comes out of my '99 Camry is green. I've pulled fluid a couple of times and it's starting to lighten up, but a couple years ago it was rather green.


Mine tends to turn green also. Fluid below from recent brake work was exchanged just 2 years ago. Anything to be concerned about?
[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Originally Posted by supton
The stuff that comes out of my '99 Camry is green. I've pulled fluid a couple of times and it's starting to lighten up, but a couple years ago it was rather green.


Mine tends to turn green also. Fluid below from recent brake work was exchanged just 2 years ago. Anything to be concerned about?

I'm told it's from the copper in the brake lines. Yeah I worry about it too, although I bet it takes very little copper corrosion to cause that.

Originally Posted by D1dad
I don't flush the lines but do extract the old and refill once a year. Never had any issues in 25 yrs doing it that way.

Brake fluid doesn't circulate though. While I suspect that a moisture radiant can cause any contained moisture to migrate up to the master cylinder so as to make the brake fluid all the same, I suspect it's very slow, and it might not happen at all (is brake fluid lighter or heavier than water? water might just accumulate at the cylinders for all I know).
 
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Originally Posted by supton
The stuff that comes out of my '99 Camry is green. I've pulled fluid a couple of times and it's starting to lighten up, but a couple years ago it was rather green.


Mine tends to turn green also. Fluid below from recent brake work was exchanged just 2 years ago. Anything to be concerned about?

I'm told it's from the copper in the brake lines. Yeah I worry about it too, although I bet it takes very little copper corrosion to cause that.


Did Toyota use copper lines on some of thier cars? If not, where is the copper coming from?The metal brake lines are steel (maybe even stainless?) on my Tacoma.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Originally Posted by supton
The stuff that comes out of my '99 Camry is green. I've pulled fluid a couple of times and it's starting to lighten up, but a couple years ago it was rather green.


Mine tends to turn green also. Fluid below from recent brake work was exchanged just 2 years ago. Anything to be concerned about?

I'm told it's from the copper in the brake lines. Yeah I worry about it too, although I bet it takes very little copper corrosion to cause that.


Did Toyota use copper lines on some of thier cars? If not, where is the copper coming from?The metal brake lines are steel (maybe even stainless?) on my Tacoma.

The stuff I've seen from two Japanese production models and an Indiana-built model was more of a golden brown to tan. Ditto on a Canadian-made Matrix. Toyota generally doesn't use Cu/Ni-Cu for brake lines.
 
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