I still have the original clutch fluid in my 87 F150 and I never had a problem. I change brake fluid about every ten years. It's a grossly overdone service.
Brake fluid change topic
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In the older American DOT3 systems, I tend to agree with you. They don't work that hard, and the systems are more rugged and basic. I don't think I ever did a brake flush on one, outside of with a brake job, on anything made going back into the 60s.
But in the newer DOT4 and 5 systems, or any that are seeing any tracking, or those with known caliper issues, I don't agree. If Mercedes specifies 2-3 years on an S-class, I'll do it at 3. An occasional flush is cheaper than a $900 caliper on one of those.
There was a debate on here on this topic a few years ago. One member insisted that due to Brownian Motion, the fluid would circulate, and that therefore removing old fluid from the master cylinder and replacing it with fresh would suffice. Others disagreed. I don't know what the truth is, but did have to bleed the clutch cylinder in the Mazda5 a few winters ago. Water had migrated to the lowest point and turned into slush. Lesson learned.
I don’t know about all the debates here. I do notice they tend to repeat themselves here after every so many years. I see people are still here debating over oil filter shelf life. I thought that debate was finally settled in 2007. Or was it 2012?
And I’m now at the point where I don’t work on them much anymore (but have a thousand fun stories from all the decades when I did).
But I do know the conventional wisdom that brake fluid, while hydroscopic, is also lighter than water. So any serious moisture that collects eventually finds its way down to the caliper bores, which is the last place you want it.
I’ve always pressure bled them at the calipers (or cylinders in the case of drums). That’s the most efficient way of getting rid of all that crap, and for pulling through any remaining air in an opened up system, too.
But if someone wants to empty out a MC reservoir with a turkey baster on a modern ABS or active braking system, and call it a flush, who am I to argue? Same as when they pump away on an older MC to bleed them, and wonder why it fails a month later. Who am I to argue? It’s their car, and their checkbook.
Thats exactly how I do it except I pump down the M/C reservoir fluid first, then refill fluid when it gets low. Kinda maximizes fresh fluid through the system by getting most of the old fluid on it's way out first. I say tomato, others say tomatoe. Either way, I do not like to leave any fluid in the pressure bleeder to contaminate fresh fluid, so basically use the Motive for pressure only.
I cycle my pump with VCDS software on my VAG cars. Don't have to, just more OCD fluid exchange
.I'm pretty anal about car maintenance but brake fluid changes aren't something I do often.
What I do is occasionally suck out the brake fluid reservoir with a turkey baster and refill with fresh fluid and then open each brake bleeder screw (one at a time) until the fluid coming out looks fresh (I keep an eye on the level in the reservoir). I do this 'gravity' fluid change maybe every 2 or 3 years.
Does anybody think this is a good or bad idea because I'm not totally sure myself?
What I do is occasionally suck out the brake fluid reservoir with a turkey baster and refill with fresh fluid and then open each brake bleeder screw (one at a time) until the fluid coming out looks fresh (I keep an eye on the level in the reservoir). I do this 'gravity' fluid change maybe every 2 or 3 years.
Does anybody think this is a good or bad idea because I'm not totally sure myself?
I've been doing gravity bleeding on the car since I changed to using the low viscosity fluid which speeds things up a little and makes it more viable option. Doing it on hot day helps too. On my motorcycle with a much shorter fluid path and greater height differential it works reasonably quickly.
I've always been puzzled by the resistance to brake fluid maintenance, especially here.
It's not a particularly difficult job; one can just jack up one corner at a time, and never have to crawl under the car.
It's not a particularly costly job; a container of brake fluid and some clear tubing can be well under $20 out the door.
It's not a job that has to be done frequently; even under the most lax oil change schedules, you'll probably be doing two or three of those vs. one brake flush.
Yet, what it does is to ensure the most important safety system on the vehicle is in good condition, which reduces risk not only for you, but others on the road.
And also yet, people cut open oil filters and behave like their well-trained eyeballs can discern every deficiency that might keep their engines from being in peak condition, except for perhaps one -- actual filtration effectiveness. Who's kidding whom about that practice, as useful as it may seem?
A fun fact, those pristine engine internals don't do a ****ed bit of good in a wrecked car that has had its brakes, or other systems fail due to neglect.
But, "never had a problem" is an easy and convenient crutch to lean on.
It's not a particularly difficult job; one can just jack up one corner at a time, and never have to crawl under the car.
It's not a particularly costly job; a container of brake fluid and some clear tubing can be well under $20 out the door.
It's not a job that has to be done frequently; even under the most lax oil change schedules, you'll probably be doing two or three of those vs. one brake flush.
Yet, what it does is to ensure the most important safety system on the vehicle is in good condition, which reduces risk not only for you, but others on the road.
And also yet, people cut open oil filters and behave like their well-trained eyeballs can discern every deficiency that might keep their engines from being in peak condition, except for perhaps one -- actual filtration effectiveness. Who's kidding whom about that practice, as useful as it may seem?
A fun fact, those pristine engine internals don't do a ****ed bit of good in a wrecked car that has had its brakes, or other systems fail due to neglect.
But, "never had a problem" is an easy and convenient crutch to lean on.
$45 for pressure pump, and problem solved!
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What pressure pump is that?
Any reason to use a pressure thing instead of the 2 person method?
It's a one man convenience. Two person method is just as effective if done properly.
Not sure what brand is this. I had Schwaben before this one.
It is similar to the two-person method, but there is less possibility of getting air in.
Also, if running ABS/DSC pump through some OBD or on BMW through INPA or ISTA, you need this pressure pump. It cannot properly flush ABS with the 2 person method.
Faded brakes can be caused by fluid that has too much moisture in it. If the brakes get hot enough the moisture turns into steam. The steam will then push the brake fluid back up into the master cylinder leaving a area of steam gas in the wheel cylinder. When the brakes are next used the steam gas compressors and uses up the volume of brake fluid that is pumped toward the cylinder. Because the pressure in the cylinder never gets high enough due to the gas compressing the result is that you do not have brakes. It's more common on trucks, especially rentals were the equipment is never properly maintained such as U-Haul. That can happen to any vehicle that has had enough moisture accumulate in the brake fluid. Another reason to change brake fluid is that the brake lines are made up of a mix of metals and one of those metals is copper. They do that because the lines have to be flexible enough to be bent to the shapes required to fit the vehicle and also during the years of use they have to not be brittle because if they were brittle they would crack from the vibration to the vehicle sees. Unfortunately some of that copper eventually leaches its way into the brake fluid. The passageways for the brake fluid to go through in an ABS system are made of aluminum. Aluminum and copper are on the opposite ends of the electronegativity chart and if there's enough moisture also in the mix you get the equivalent of a battery effect which is a great way to have a lot of corrosion of the small passageways in the ABS system. This will ruin an ABS system. And they're not cheap to replace. So, there are two main reasons to replace your brake fluid on a regular basis. Protect your ABS system from corrosion, and protect the brakes from fading from too much moisture being in the brake fluid. One of the best brake fluids you can buy is Bosch es- 16. It's designed to hold more moisture while still preventing Steam from forming and also it's designed to prevent corrosion from copper interacting with the aluminum of the ABS system while having levels of copper in the fluid after a long time of use that would be high enough where other brake fluids that are cheaper would allow corrosion to happen. Still in all, there are limits of what this much better brake fluid can manage to maintain proper breaks with. And after a while it still has to be changed but that may be a longer period of time then you're run of the mill cheap brake fluid.
I bought two of the 1 qt cans of Bosch es16 off of Amazon (best price) when I did my brake fluid flush two and a half years ago. It takes more than a quart to do the fronts, but less than a quart to do the back. Because the front calipers are much bigger.
Also note, if you're going to be compressing the Pistons on the calipers it's a very good idea to crack the bleeder before you do that so that you do not push the old fluid up into the ABS system. The ABS system has very small filters in it and there's a limit to how much dirt from old brake fluid that they can handle.
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I usually service my brakes yearly meaning I remove calipers & pads, lubricate pins & clean rust buildup on inside & outer rim of rotor and push the caliper pistons back into the calipers. After everything is back together I remove as much fluid from the master cylinder as possible & refill.
Granted you don’t get a of it but on a yearly basis doing this helps keeps the system dry (free from moisture). This is important with the abs system to keep it happy.
Also when pumping the brakes up the first time I only depress the brake pedal 1/3 to no more than 1/2 of travel to avoid pushing the master cylinder beyond its normal travel. Contaminates may be present in areas beyond the normal travel and may damage seals requiring master cylinder replacement.
On older vehicles this is a real concern.
90cummins
Granted you don’t get a of it but on a yearly basis doing this helps keeps the system dry (free from moisture). This is important with the abs system to keep it happy.
Also when pumping the brakes up the first time I only depress the brake pedal 1/3 to no more than 1/2 of travel to avoid pushing the master cylinder beyond its normal travel. Contaminates may be present in areas beyond the normal travel and may damage seals requiring master cylinder replacement.
On older vehicles this is a real concern.
90cummins
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That's so cuttingly true we should insist - Feb or no Feb... put this as post of the year.
I feel a rant coming on...
There's brain-out idiots asking for ceramic brake-pad comparisons and other tosh, yet a simple BF flush... oh no... let's prattle on with some utter nonsense comparing one oil to another, when we're asking another random fool who could not truly know either. Come on, if your motor/trans went bang today, could you rightly say it was this brand or the other at fault?
Lest we forget the boil-point heroes, when all they do is drive the 'race-car' to AutoZone. Yet once there, somehow they can't find the will to buy BF where they pile it high and sell it cheap.
Ahh... "Never had a problem". And the other one, "Been doing blah for 20 years" - this roughly translated means, "I had no clue 20 years back, and have made 'kin sure I still don't."
Someone should say it, and it was you. Well done.
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Yeah in 20 years ago the vehicles they were driving didn't have ABS.
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