Brake Cleaner+Welding = DEADLY!!!
- Thread starter RWEST
- Start date
- Status
Thanks for posting this!
I use brake cleaner fairly often for degreasing, sometimes before welding. I'm going to remember this.
I use brake cleaner fairly often for degreasing, sometimes before welding. I'm going to remember this.
Man that sucks for him. I used brake cleaner back in the day, but now everything is done with acetone. I'm really thankful that I never had this happen to me...wow you could be a gonner quick!
Read up on World War I.
Poison gas is no joke.
Poison gas is no joke.
I'm going to be little critical here, but I have nothing but respect for what Brew Dude ultimately did by sharing his experience with the world. Thanks Brew Dude.
When you have some obvious clues that internal organs are shutting down, don't be a tough guy, get your self to a hospital.
Toasting the tetrachloroethylene was an easy mistake to make in the first place, but ignoring the symptoms of kidney failure and other serious problems for a few days after he had read about the effects of phosgene was positively Darwinian.
Still, props to the Brew Dude for sharing his mishap with the rest of the world, he may just save a few lives.
When you have some obvious clues that internal organs are shutting down, don't be a tough guy, get your self to a hospital.
Toasting the tetrachloroethylene was an easy mistake to make in the first place, but ignoring the symptoms of kidney failure and other serious problems for a few days after he had read about the effects of phosgene was positively Darwinian.
Still, props to the Brew Dude for sharing his mishap with the rest of the world, he may just save a few lives.
A good reason to only buy the non-chlorinated brake cleaner. It may not be as strong, but is still some nasty stuff in its own right.
Less and less common these days, but I remember being told that R-12 (and probably some other chlorinated hydrocarbons)can turn into Phosgene if exposed to open flame as well.
Less and less common these days, but I remember being told that R-12 (and probably some other chlorinated hydrocarbons)can turn into Phosgene if exposed to open flame as well.
Holy smokes! I'm glad I read the link. Mental notes made.
Kestas
Staff member
Don't smoke when brake cleaner or r12 is in the air. Same result.
It's unlikely that he was reacting to phosgene. Phosgene acts in that it decomposes to hydrochloric acid in the presence of water - it would also cause burning to mucous membranes.
Chlorinated solvents, however, can have neurological effects as they are central nervous system depressants. Things like tetrachloroethylene (C2Cl4) are great solvents, but you don't want to inhale them.
I'm thinking his work area wasn't as well ventilated as he implied.
Chlorinated solvents, however, can have neurological effects as they are central nervous system depressants. Things like tetrachloroethylene (C2Cl4) are great solvents, but you don't want to inhale them.
I'm thinking his work area wasn't as well ventilated as he implied.
Thanks for the heads up......
So the brake clean leaves some sort of film huh? I thought it evaporated with nothing left behind? I used some Amsoil Power foam on an exhaust manifold the other day. I then took a propane torch to the manifold to try and free a bolt. It then started fuming up. I was thinking knowing my luck the fumes are toxic.
I always try to avoid the fumes of anything if I can.
I use Laquer thinner, paint thinner and denatured alcohol. I hope nothing evil comes of those.
Maybe alcohol is the least toxic of the three? I can use it in spray bottles, plus it's way cheaper than brake clean. This is a very good thing to talk about because some people breath anything and light up smokes and think nothing of it.
So the brake clean leaves some sort of film huh? I thought it evaporated with nothing left behind? I used some Amsoil Power foam on an exhaust manifold the other day. I then took a propane torch to the manifold to try and free a bolt. It then started fuming up. I was thinking knowing my luck the fumes are toxic.
I always try to avoid the fumes of anything if I can.
I use Laquer thinner, paint thinner and denatured alcohol. I hope nothing evil comes of those.
Maybe alcohol is the least toxic of the three? I can use it in spray bottles, plus it's way cheaper than brake clean. This is a very good thing to talk about because some people breath anything and light up smokes and think nothing of it.
Originally Posted By: RWEST
A guy was welding some parts that had been cleaned with brake cleaner - produced phosgene gas!!
Yes, tetrachloroethlene forms phosgene gas when exposed to ultra-high temperatures. So do lots of other normally stable compounds, including halon and some of the freons. Don't EVER let freon or halon get sucked into the intake of a running engine or phosgene may come spewing out the exhaust before the engine stalls!
Still I'd rather use "regular" perc brake cleaner and be careful to dry it before welding/soldering than use the alternatives. Under most conditions perc is much safer than the "chlorine free" brake cleaners that are a soup of hydrocarbons, ketones, including methyl-ethyl-ketone (MEK). The fumes from those will turn your brain to goo over time without the welding torch.... :-( Perc isn't *good* to breathe either, but its much less toxic than MEK.
A guy was welding some parts that had been cleaned with brake cleaner - produced phosgene gas!!
Yes, tetrachloroethlene forms phosgene gas when exposed to ultra-high temperatures. So do lots of other normally stable compounds, including halon and some of the freons. Don't EVER let freon or halon get sucked into the intake of a running engine or phosgene may come spewing out the exhaust before the engine stalls!
Still I'd rather use "regular" perc brake cleaner and be careful to dry it before welding/soldering than use the alternatives. Under most conditions perc is much safer than the "chlorine free" brake cleaners that are a soup of hydrocarbons, ketones, including methyl-ethyl-ketone (MEK). The fumes from those will turn your brain to goo over time without the welding torch.... :-( Perc isn't *good* to breathe either, but its much less toxic than MEK.
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Thanks for the heads up......
So the brake clean leaves some sort of film huh? I thought it evaporated with nothing left behind? \
No, you were right. Brake cleaner DOES evaporate completely- that's why its usually so good to use. Read the article- he ran his TIG welder across a couple of "dimples" that still had liquid brake cleaner in them because he was in a rush and just wiped the tank down before he started welding instead of drying it with time, hot air, or compressed air at a minimum. That's a HUGE no-no!
Thanks for the heads up......
So the brake clean leaves some sort of film huh? I thought it evaporated with nothing left behind? \
No, you were right. Brake cleaner DOES evaporate completely- that's why its usually so good to use. Read the article- he ran his TIG welder across a couple of "dimples" that still had liquid brake cleaner in them because he was in a rush and just wiped the tank down before he started welding instead of drying it with time, hot air, or compressed air at a minimum. That's a HUGE no-no!
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Thanks for the heads up......
So the brake clean leaves some sort of film huh? I thought it evaporated with nothing left behind? I used some Amsoil Power foam on an exhaust manifold the other day. I then took a propane torch to the manifold to try and free a bolt. It then started fuming up. I was thinking knowing my luck the fumes are toxic.
I always try to avoid the fumes of anything if I can.
I use Laquer thinner, paint thinner and denatured alcohol. I hope nothing evil comes of those.
Maybe alcohol is the least toxic of the three? I can use it in spray bottles, plus it's way cheaper than brake clean. This is a very good thing to talk about because some people breath anything and light up smokes and think nothing of it.
Alcohol does not have anywhere near the grease-dissolving capability of paint thinner. I use paint thinner to clean badly gunked up parts.
Thanks for the heads up......
So the brake clean leaves some sort of film huh? I thought it evaporated with nothing left behind? I used some Amsoil Power foam on an exhaust manifold the other day. I then took a propane torch to the manifold to try and free a bolt. It then started fuming up. I was thinking knowing my luck the fumes are toxic.
I always try to avoid the fumes of anything if I can.
I use Laquer thinner, paint thinner and denatured alcohol. I hope nothing evil comes of those.
Maybe alcohol is the least toxic of the three? I can use it in spray bottles, plus it's way cheaper than brake clean. This is a very good thing to talk about because some people breath anything and light up smokes and think nothing of it.
Alcohol does not have anywhere near the grease-dissolving capability of paint thinner. I use paint thinner to clean badly gunked up parts.
Kestas
Staff member
I agree. Paint thinner is best for heavy degreasing. Alcohol is good if you need to follow up and remove the paint thinner residue.
The MSDS I have seen for non-chlorinated cleaners are either Acetone/Toluene/Naptha, Acetone/Heptane, or Acetone/Heptane/Xylene. Haven't seen one yet containing MEK. Perhaps that was before the "Low VOC" formulas currently on the market?
Last edited:
uhh yeah, I'll stick with my heptane brake cleaner, thanks!
Most non-chlorinated I've used contained methanol, acetone, and heptane.
I do use the paint thinner for heavy grease and the alcohol for light cleaning. I used to use lacquer thinner, but I think I will get away from it because I feel maybe it's worse to breath than denatured alcohol?
This guy is plain stupid and made a HUGE mistake by welding near ANY flammable/poisonous chemical. In most shops he would be terminated before he killed himself or someone else. I worked with an Ironworker crew for about a year when I was younger and every time we would get some jamoke who would weld near solvents, fuels or oil based paints that were not 100% dry the crew members would kick him out and get someone else.
The experienced guys wouldn't even tell the foreman just tell the guy toget the he** out and don't come back. We had a guy put a cutting torch to a natural gas line once without checking to see if it was disconnected and purged first. He was gone before lunch.
The experienced guys wouldn't even tell the foreman just tell the guy toget the he** out and don't come back. We had a guy put a cutting torch to a natural gas line once without checking to see if it was disconnected and purged first. He was gone before lunch.
- Status
