Bolt Extractor

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gathermewool

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While removing the rear struts on my '08 Subaru to replace the springs, I started to round off the strut-to-swingarm nuts...on both sides! The nuts would not budge at all, even after a liberal coating of PB Blaster a couple of hours before the job. I tried two different air ipact guns with no luck. It was the use of a breaker bar that started to round the edges. As soon as I saw the socket move and cock slightly at an angle I stopped and inspected. I was at a loss until another guy at the hobby shop walked over and offered the use of his socket. He grabbed another breaker bar and, together, POP! It finally gave and came loose. I've never heard such a loud pop before from breaking loose a nut/bolt.

Anyways, my question is what socket did he give me? He told me and I can't for the life of me remember anything about it! It didn't seem like one of those spiral-fluted extractors that I see online; it seemed to look just like any other 6-point stocket, but the flat surfaces had little nubs.

Sorry for the newbie tool question. I need to have these sockets before I tackle the front struts.

Also, should I replace the stock flange nuts that are slightly rounded with new OEM nuts or is there a harder steel nut that I can pick up at the local parts store? I'm sure that the nut being over-torqued from the factory had something to do with it, but I'd rather no have to deal with this in the future if I need to remove the struts again.
 
Sounds like Grip Tite sockets, you can get them at Sears. I have a set and really like them. They wont last a lifetime but they do the job. I have used them for a year or so. Gotten off all but the most rounded off bolts.
I would replce those nuts!
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I was at a loss until another guy at the hobby shop walked over and offered the use of his socket.


Hobby shop? Were you working on your car at a military base?
55.gif
 
At least it was not like my focus with a retarted female torx bolt, in my experience torx when seized strips, luckily with the use of a punch if it was a pinch bolt they usually arent threaded and you can tap them out over the course of a few hours.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Hobby shop? Were you working on your car at a military base?
55.gif



Subbase New London. I didn’t realize ‘hobby shop’ was a term used only on military bases. Really cool resource for us DIY'ers! Anyway, the subbase hobby shop is ok, but the PO’s who run the shop are usually guys on limited duty that they can’t put any where else. Most know about as much about cars as I do, if that! I’ve only been going there for the past few years, but I’ve noticed the supply of tools have slowly been diminishing as people either purposefully or accidently nab tools after completing a job. A few guys have had wheels and expensive tools stolen, too. I was kind of taken aback that something like this would happen on a military base
mad.gif


Originally Posted By: scurvy
I think a better question is this: What sockets were you using?


I was initially using a 12-point impact socket with the impact gun. After a couple of hours to let the PB Blaster soak in I lifted the car and hit both the nut and bolt head side with a few half-minute-long spurts each, with out any success. The impact gun didn’t do any damage to the nut or bolt head.

Using the 12-point with the breaker bar did. I tried to maintain the socket flush and apply torque perfectly perpendicular to the bolt axis, but couldn’t stop it from wanting to cock and start to round the edges. After noticing this, and with only a little bit of rounding of the edges I hunted down a 6-point, which didn’t prove to be any better. With the breaker bar, the 6-point started to round the nut even more. I tried the other side and had the same results, so I stopped before I did too much damage.

It was at this time that the guy in the bay next to me offered up his Extractor. It was only then, and with two cheater bars, one on each side, that we were able to pop the nut free.
happy2.gif



Originally Posted By: JonnySaab
Sounds like Grip Tite sockets, you can get them at Sears. I have a set and really like them. They wont last a lifetime but they do the job. I have used them for a year or so. Gotten off all but the most rounded off bolts.
I would replce those nuts!

Originally Posted By: SIXSPEED
Was the socket similar to these Z-drive sockets made by Powerbuilt? They have a semi-circular groove at each corner. The Craftsman sockets I have share a similar design.

http://www.powerbuilttools.co.nz/powerbuiltsockets.htm

What type of socket rounded the nuts; was it a 12 pt?


It wasn’t a Z-drive or Grip Tite, IIRC. It was a dark, standard 6-point socket that seemed to be just like any other socket, except that the flat surfaces had little nubbins. Maybe my memory is failing me, since frustration was pretty high at this point. I’ll read up more about the Z-drive. From what I’ve read, it seems that the Grip Tite are pretty weak, and might not handle the torque required to remove OEM-Gorilla-tightened suspension nuts when I tackle the front struts!
thumbsup2.gif
 
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Best to stick with 6-pt sockets for high-torque bolts and nuts like the strut-to-spindle/knuckle hardware.
 
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Grip Tite sockets are complete plastic filled garbage, unless you like broken sockets (I broke 2 16mm without much torque on a rounded cylinder head bolt). Plus they are overpriced, sweet. The harbor freight damaged bolt extractors are really good for $20. I used them to remove a damaged cylinder head bolt, used a 32" ratchet and they just dug in and got the bolt out.
 
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Originally Posted By: SIXSPEED
Best to stick with 6-pt sockets for high-torque bolts and nuts like the strut-to-spindle/knuckle hardware.


I only used the 6-point on the passenger-side after trying the impact gun. It didn't round as easily or as much as when I used the 12-point on the driver-side, but still damaged the nut when I applied a lot of torque. This was when I stopped what I was doing.

It just seemes to me that either the break-free torque is either so ridiculously high from the factory or I'm missing something. Either way, it seems that the nut extractor-type socket is what gave me the bite solid enough to break the nut free.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm working 12s this week, but need to get something before this weekend so I can be prepared to do the front. The last thing I need is to round those off. At least I know now to get both sides loose before replacing the spring on either side! That should save some headache if things go poorly on the second side I choose.
 
I also find even a propane torch helps with stubborn stuff, I try to only heat the nut so it "expands" a bit more than the bolt. Also if they locktited it at the factory even the propane heat helps soften it.
Also are you using the right size socket? IIRC my neons strut hardware was metric sized, and with a bit of surface rust I had to lightly tap the socket on and off the nut with a hammer, so it wasn't going to slip.
Hopefully things go better the next time!
 
No hot work in the hobby shop
frown.gif
Besides, the swing arm is really thin and I'd rather not use heat near the strut, either, though I'm sure I could localize the flame enough to prevent heating up the strut or damaging the swing arm.

The 17mm socket seemed to fit perfectly. All of the resources said 17mm, and I'm not sure I've ever come across a Japanese car that had anything standard.
 
Originally Posted By: lipadj46
Grip Tite sockets are complete plastic filled garbage, unless you like broken sockets (I broke 2 16mm without much torque on a rounded cylinder head bolt). Plus they are overpriced, sweet. The harbor freight damaged bolt extractors are really good for $20. I used them to remove a damaged cylinder head bolt, used a 32" ratchet and they just dug in and got the bolt out.


I disagree, I've had good fortune with the GripTite sockets. Sure, they aren't as sturdy as the grooved bolt extractors, but they're not really meant for that level of force. Right tool, right job. If you used a 32" breaker bar on them, no wonder it broke. They also have a lifetime warranty. Craftsman also makes a great quality bolt extractor kit- it's on sale now for $15 and that would be my first buy.
 
I've had a decent experience with my grip tite sockets so far. Although I agree, I do worry about the plastic portions of it.. And I do wonder how convenient their lifetime warranty really is, when I actually need to use it.
 
I have wondered about that too. How easy are they to get a replacement when you contact the company and do they charge anything? (I HATE it when a company promises the tool will last a lifetime, the tool breaks, and then they have the audacity to charge you for shipping the replacement).

That's actually why I am such a big supporter of Craftsman. Sears has always been very good with me and everyone I know for replacing a tool when it breaks (which is rarely and almost always due to misuse). Snap-on and similar companies have been a nightmare- I can't ever get them to replace their tools when they fail so I try to avoid buying them if I can find a Craftsman counterpart.

-tech
 
Originally Posted By: ajchien
I've had a decent experience with my grip tite sockets so far. Although I agree, I do worry about the plastic portions of it.. And I do wonder how convenient their lifetime warranty really is, when I actually need to use it.


I was at Sears today and I looked at the GripTite sockets again. It appears that they have changed and the sockets are now entirely metal, no plastic at all (that I could see from the package anyway). Sounds like they've had enough warranty claims. Not sure what they were thinking in the first place with using plastic components on a socket advertised for difficult nuts.

-Techniker
 
Originally Posted By: Techniker
Originally Posted By: ajchien
I've had a decent experience with my grip tite sockets so far. Although I agree, I do worry about the plastic portions of it.. And I do wonder how convenient their lifetime warranty really is, when I actually need to use it.


I was at Sears today and I looked at the GripTite sockets again. It appears that they have changed and the sockets are now entirely metal, no plastic at all (that I could see from the package anyway). Sounds like they've had enough warranty claims. Not sure what they were thinking in the first place with using plastic components on a socket advertised for difficult nuts.

-Techniker


The plastic is on the inside and is what holds those (thin) pieces of metal that grip the bolt head together. I just cannot see how these can be the best tool for any job. A bolt usually gets rounded off because it is torqued on too tight. These do not handle high torque at all. Maybe in a recessed area where a thicker standard damaged bolt extractor will not fit but be very gentle.

Maybe for a person who use their tools lightly and does not mind made in china, then go for it.
 
Originally Posted By: lipadj46
Maybe for a person who use their tools lightly and does not mind made in china, then go for it.

You have insulted my honor, sir! I challenge you to a duel!

Actually, in all seriousness, you make a valid point, which is why I would recommend getting a Craftsman Bolt Out kit beforehand (and the requisite ball peen hammer).
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
It wasn’t a Z-drive or Grip Tite, IIRC. It was a dark, standard 6-point socket that seemed to be just like any other socket, except that the flat surfaces had little nubbins. Maybe my memory is failing me, since frustration was pretty high at this point.

I have a set of extractors similar to what you're describing. If you know what a buttress thread is (or just google it), imagine a single large thread sticking out from each of the flats on the six-point socket. It digs into the nut and will not allow it to slip once it's on. Pretty much ruins the nut, but it's going to be replaced if you get to the point of needing to use the socket anyway.

I bought mine at work and haven't seen the exact same product advertised anywhere else. Problem is, the company that brought them in, discontinued them or I'd let you know where to get a set since they work pretty well.
 
Originally Posted By: lipadj46
Maybe for a person who use their tools lightly and does not mind made in china, then go for it.

Grip-Tite sockets are made in indiana.
 
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