Because oil pumps in car engines are positive displacement pumps and if there is restriction the bypass valve on the filter just opens.
BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS
- Thread starter BOBISTHEOILGUY
- Start date
- Status
Wouldn't the bypass valve in the toughgard test have opened and raised the pressure on the output side?
[ July 04, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
[ July 04, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
I find this oil flow test facinating. But it was brought up by a few people about the possibility of the bypass valve being open during the tests. Would the test be more accurate if oil filters were used that didn't have bypass valves? such as the PF1218 or PF 25 or equivalent?
[ July 06, 2003, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
[ July 06, 2003, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
Just wondering, since the intial results were posted some time ago. Are you having any legal problems with the filter testing?
As I recall, some of the early tests on the web several years ago were removed from the web due to legal pressure.
Hope it does not happen here.
As I recall, some of the early tests on the web several years ago were removed from the web due to legal pressure.
Hope it does not happen here.
No, thats' not the case. There's a lot to doing these tests and by myself it makes it very difficult as it takes a while to setup a standard you want to do, work the controls, change out the filters, run the motor, keep things clean, keep track of what you have done, taking temps, and many other things but also to take the time out to do all of this while trying to make a living. Sorry for not being more diligent on this, and I think I have someone locally here that says' he's interested in working with me on this project but we have got to get his and my schedules together to do this. I'm sure many may not have this problem but with kids home out of school along with having to develop training material for one of our lubrication seminars for the logging industry meetings, Time has been the biggest problem with this. I promise, I will in fact get this back on track and continue. Many have sent notes to me on suggestions and all of this is being looked at as when I start up this, I want to get as true a reading and report as much info so conclusions can be drawn from what we have to show. I'm not worried about legal ramifications as what I'm doing here is not promoting or demoting based on any personal opinions but doing demonstrations and showing the end results. The other difference is that we offer to any and all tested filter companies the opportunity to voice their concern/ comments about the test so it's not like we are being one sided about these results.
bob
sbc350gearhead - I am thinking now that the bypass valve has very little to do with oil flow. Whether the pressure on the pump side is high or low that pump will deliver x volume of oil. The bypass valve is in there to save the filter from failure of its cannister or element if a high differential develops across it. This would probably be the case on starting with cold oil and the galleries empty, so to speak. Just what my fevered mind thinks at the moment. Cheers, RW
This is not my area of expertise.....so let me see if I understand. Restriction in a filter means nothing as far as oil flow. The bypass is there only to protect the filter. The oil pump will provide the same volume of oil whether it is though the filter or through the bypass.....correct?
Thats the way I am leaning. Of course all bets are off for engines that have a built in relief valve. I think that in that case oil is diverted back to the pan when it opens. So the search goes on.
The filter bypass valve is really there to protect the engine. Should the filter become clogged, the filter bypass valve opens to allow oil to continue to flow through the engine.
While positive displacement type pumps will basically pump the same amount of oil regardless of pressure, engine oil pumps also contain a built in oil pressure regulating valve. The regulating valve keeps the oil pressure at a reasonable level by bleeding off (bypassing) as much oil as required to prevent the system operating pressure from becoming too high (thus preventing ruptured or collapsed oil filters, blown gaskets, etc.). When the oil pump regulating valve is regulating (bypassing to control pressure), excess oil (not all of the oil) flows directly back to the sump and does not pass to the filter, bearings, etc.
When the oil pressure regulating valve is “regulating”, a more restrictive oil filter will reduce both flow and pressure to bearings etc. When the oil pressure regulating valve is NOT “regulating”, a more restrictive oil filter will reduce pressure to the bearings, but flow is not reduced. Generally, the oil pressure valve is regulating under conditions like cold oil and/or high engine RPM. Likewise, the pressure valve is generally not regulating in a warm engine at idle, and it’s common to see a drop on the oil pressure gauge under those conditions.
While positive displacement type pumps will basically pump the same amount of oil regardless of pressure, engine oil pumps also contain a built in oil pressure regulating valve. The regulating valve keeps the oil pressure at a reasonable level by bleeding off (bypassing) as much oil as required to prevent the system operating pressure from becoming too high (thus preventing ruptured or collapsed oil filters, blown gaskets, etc.). When the oil pump regulating valve is regulating (bypassing to control pressure), excess oil (not all of the oil) flows directly back to the sump and does not pass to the filter, bearings, etc.
When the oil pressure regulating valve is “regulating”, a more restrictive oil filter will reduce both flow and pressure to bearings etc. When the oil pressure regulating valve is NOT “regulating”, a more restrictive oil filter will reduce pressure to the bearings, but flow is not reduced. Generally, the oil pressure valve is regulating under conditions like cold oil and/or high engine RPM. Likewise, the pressure valve is generally not regulating in a warm engine at idle, and it’s common to see a drop on the oil pressure gauge under those conditions.
Here's a pic and more on what he's saying about the bypass valve in the pump.
Interesting articles section, Oil Pumps The Hows and Why's
Thanks Bob. I remember looking at that pic earlier. As noted in the picture/post, bypass oil in the Ford 302 pump goes back to the input (not to the sump as I stated). Is that the case for most/all engine oil pumps?
I'd have to say yes its got to be normal to re feed back into the in put side. That part of the pump is not submerged into the oil and if it was dropped back into the pan, it would tend to cause some foaming, and would possibly lose its prime in the pump.
Bob, Thanks for the good work. Glad that some oil filter company is not looking over your shoulder.
Best **** thread I've seen on here so far since I registered
Great Results and very technical data, some of it seems greek to me but I think I know what's goin on
I'll be keepin a close eye on this thread like vulture to a snake
,,,,,,,,AR
newbie here.. awesome test data...
the I=E/R is not pressure, flow and whatever the previous response was... Ohm's law deals with electricity.. it's current is equal to voltage divided by resistance in a DC circuit...
but an AC circuit is a little tricky.. that's when you have to take into account capacitance and inductance and using vector addition figure out how much impedence you have then plug that value in for resistance...
sorry for the long bit above... I'm a Nuclear Trained Electricians Mate onboard the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69).. I understand mechanical crap like flow, pressure, velocity, head loss, and all that jazz...
anyway.. keep up the good work .. and remember.. all data that was ever gathered is worthless unless you have a baseline/ reference to compare it against...
Luke
the I=E/R is not pressure, flow and whatever the previous response was... Ohm's law deals with electricity.. it's current is equal to voltage divided by resistance in a DC circuit...
but an AC circuit is a little tricky.. that's when you have to take into account capacitance and inductance and using vector addition figure out how much impedence you have then plug that value in for resistance...
sorry for the long bit above... I'm a Nuclear Trained Electricians Mate onboard the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69).. I understand mechanical crap like flow, pressure, velocity, head loss, and all that jazz...
anyway.. keep up the good work .. and remember.. all data that was ever gathered is worthless unless you have a baseline/ reference to compare it against...
Luke
You all have no idea how appreciative I
am of this site, or its contributing members
(Bob, goes without saying
)....sure
humbles me - with respect to the attention
to detail and the constant orientation I see
towards neutrality over here.
I am very glad that I found, and have read
all the threads relating to the new filter studies
and DR filter testing. I am now at somwehat of a loss....
I am currently running Mobil 1 10V30 and a
Purolator filter on my 4.6L modular engine.
Because of the temperatures encountered
down here this summer...it was 117* two days
ago , and because I'm SC'd.....I was planning on putting in
a Permacool DR system with L30001's and Redline
10v40 for the hot weather.....but now, I haven't a clue
as to what my intelligent choices may be.
Any suggestions/observations would be welcomed.
am of this site, or its contributing members
(Bob, goes without saying
humbles me - with respect to the attention
to detail and the constant orientation I see
towards neutrality over here.
I am very glad that I found, and have read
all the threads relating to the new filter studies
and DR filter testing. I am now at somwehat of a loss....
I am currently running Mobil 1 10V30 and a
Purolator filter on my 4.6L modular engine.
Because of the temperatures encountered
down here this summer...it was 117* two days
ago , and because I'm SC'd.....I was planning on putting in
a Permacool DR system with L30001's and Redline
10v40 for the hot weather.....but now, I haven't a clue
as to what my intelligent choices may be.
Any suggestions/observations would be welcomed.
Oil and filter combo is a good choice IMO...stick with it.quote:
Originally posted by MagerThom:
You all have no idea how appreciative I
am of this site, or its contributing members
(Bob, goes without saying)....sure
humbles me - with respect to the attention
to detail and the constant orientation I see
towards neutrality over here.
I am very glad that I found, and have read
all the threads relating to the new filter studies
and DR filter testing. I am now at somwehat of a loss....
I am currently running Mobil 1 10V30 and a
Purolator filter on my 4.6L modular engine.
Because of the temperatures encountered
down here this summer...it was 117* two days
ago , and because I'm SC'd.....I was planning on putting in
a Permacool DR system with L30001's and Redline
10v40 for the hot weather.....but now, I haven't a clue
as to what my intelligent choices may be.
Any suggestions/observations would be welcomed.
Since many of us here are so obsessive (at least I am) about doing the best for our engines, I'm wondering if anyone is using one of these filters.
I'm on the verge of buying one but was hoping for some feedback if anyone has any thoughts.
Seems good - filtering down to 8 microns, very high flow, and very high capacity.
http://www.cmfilters.com/
I'm on the verge of buying one but was hoping for some feedback if anyone has any thoughts.
Seems good - filtering down to 8 microns, very high flow, and very high capacity.
http://www.cmfilters.com/
I'd keep using the Mobil and the L30001's...great combo
- Status
