BMW tranny and Synchromesh?

e36'n · Apr 26, 2006

I have a 1992 325is Turbo with the Getrag, and I've had problems with grinding when I shift gears.

Going from neutral to 1st gear grinds unless I go 2nd then 1st or go really slow. 5th gear also grinds if you don't put it in VERY nicely.

I didn't have a problem with whatever the previous owner had in it, it just started when I switched to RP Synchromax. A couple months after using the RP with poor results, I switched to Redline D4ATF and got a slight improvement, but still nowhere near what I was used to.

The manual recommends Dexron II/III ATF, and I'm not pleased that the tranny started grinding after I switched fluids.

What fluid will reduce the grinding as much as possible? I bought some Synchromesh after reading great things about it, but am not 100% sure that I can subsitute it for ATF. When I called Pennzoil they said it's compatible.

Do I want a thicker or thinner fluid? Any recommendations?

Thanks.

mechtech · Apr 27, 2006

Pennzoil synchromesh will work well. It is indeed a little thicker than ATF, but cold ATF can be thicker than hot Penn Synch.
A step up from the Penn Synch is Specialty Formulations Synchroglide.
There are heavier and lighter versions available.

e36'n · Apr 28, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by mechtech:
Pennzoil synchromesh will work well. It is indeed a little thicker than ATF, but cold ATF can be thicker than hot Penn Synch.
A step up from the Penn Synch is Specialty Formulations Synchroglide.
There are heavier and lighter versions available.

Which one would you recommend for my situation?

Jeron · Apr 28, 2006

Apparently syncros want less slippery fluid. You might try going back to regular non-synthetic ATF.

e36'n · Apr 28, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by Jeron:
Apparently syncros want less slippery fluid. You might try going back to regular non-synthetic ATF.

Good call. Pennzoil Synchromesh is non-synthetic I believe...or is it?

Any other recommendations?

Jimbo · Apr 28, 2006

I have the same car and transmission. It likes Redline MTL the best and regular dino Type F (I used Valvoline) second best. Since you are in Canada, I would go with the Type F. MTL may be too thick in the winter.

MolaKule · Apr 28, 2006

quote:

Apparently syncros want less slippery fluid. You might try going back to regular non-synthetic ATF.

Really! Never saw any supporting data for that statement.

Lubricity is but one factor. You can design a mineral oil formulation to be very lubricious, but it may not have the stability of synthetic oils.

The proper viscosity is another major factor. While one viscosity of fluid may be specified, you may find slightly thicker (or thinner) fluids shift better. The proper viscosity is determined by clearances, gear type, and bearing type, which are part of the overall design.

Friction modification is another major factor and is a different topic than lubricity. The proper friction modification determines how well the synchros function (engagement).

Protection additives - another major factor. EP and AW additives reduce wear and support longevity. Gear and bearing types determine this additive type as well.

Check out these FAQ's:

http://specialtyformulations.netfir...y.php?osCsid=e2c6ac40cbcea25f2fca67a77b2890a7

e36'n · Apr 28, 2006

I've read the FAQ's a couple times now. What would you personally recommend in my case?

MolaKule · Apr 29, 2006

I would recommend the MTFGlide.

I would not use a hydraulic trans fluid for a number of reasons stated above.

e36'n · Apr 29, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
I would recommend the MTFGlide.

I would not use a hydraulic trans fluid for a number of reasons stated above.

You don't think the MTFGlide would be too thin seeing as my synchro's are worn?

1sttruck · Apr 29, 2006

Might be helpful....

http://quad4x4.com/Causes of Manual Transmission Failures.htm

Refilling the transmission with the wrong lubricant is becoming more common all the time. Part of the problem is the plethora of manual transmission lube choices. The G360, NV4500HD, and NV5600 all use radically different lubricants. Fortunately, using the wrong lubricant usually causes shifting problems (particularly with the NV4500HD) long before total failure occurs. Regular automatic transmission fluid may work great in your buddy’s Ford Ranger 5 speed, but it will probably make your Dodge, Ford fullsize, or GM truck transmission self destruct.

Full Size Transmission Model - Recommended Lubricant - Approximate Capacity
GM & Dodge NV4500 5 spd - Castrol SyntorqLT 75w85 - 4 qts
Dodge NV5600 6 spd - Texaco STF or Pennzoil Synchromesh - 9.5 pts
Dodge Getrag G360 spd - 5w30 (Synthetic preferred w/Diesel) - 6.8pts
Ford ZF42 & ZF47 5spd - Synthetic Mercon/Dexron III - 3.4-3.8 qts
Ford ZF-650 6spd - Mercon or Synthetic Mercon/DexronIII - 6.4 qts w/cooler
Ford Mazda M50D LD 5 spd - Mercon/Dexron III - 7.6 pts
GM ZF S6-650 6 spd - GM Synthetic 12378515

madmax420 · Apr 29, 2006

swepco 714 hyd.trans fluid.

mechtech · Apr 29, 2006

e36 - Also, make sure your clutch is adjusted for full travel [and subsequent full disengagement], and is bled with fresh fluid.
That can help a lot.

Pablo · Apr 29, 2006

Assuming it's not a clutch or huge wear issue, going just slightly higher in vis. can help.

Try this: MTF

It's a couple ticks thicker than ATF, but not hugely thicker.

1sttruck · Apr 29, 2006

Looks like you gotta look at the sticker...

http://www.e36fanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33787

A lot of posters mention that BMW manual transmissions use Auto transmission fluid too.

That is not true for all cases. In fact, I would hazard a guess and say none.

There is a yellow sticker on the right side of my Getrag 5 speed manual transmission that specifies the fluid to use. It states MTF-LT-01, part # 23 00 1 434 404.

This part # has been replaced by 83 22 9 408 942 , listed as Gearbox oil, 5 liters.

The description on the container states something like "From production break '97 onwards, all manual transmissions should be filled with MTF-LT-01". The label on the back was missing so I could not get the exact specs, i.e. GL-5, etc.

BMW Auto Transmission fluid is part # 83 22 9 407 765 . I have not seen the container in person, but the parts person said that it says GL5, over the phone.

e36'n · Apr 30, 2006

Thanks for the tips everyone.

I'll look at my tranny, but I thought I saw "Dexron II."

Many bimmer owners have had success using Synchromax and D4ATF, but who knows why I didn't. Maybe Redline MTL would work. I've seen recommendations for older bmw transmission to use that fluid.

LarryL · Apr 30, 2006

Dave at Red Line is a BMW fan. Ask him.

e36'n · May 21, 2006

Fluid change update.

Put in 1 quart of QS Synchromesh and topped the rest (0.3l) with Redline Synthetic ATF Dexron II fluid.

Going from Redline D4ATF to this and I noticed notchier and harder shifting. Didn't seem nearly as smooth. Quick shocked I'd have to say. I haven't ground 5th gear as it usually would but it doesn't shift like the normal buttery smooth that you get from BMW's. I only drove it about 50kms; is that enough time to get a good feel for how it will shift?

Looks like I'll have to try something else now. I'd go for Specialty Formations or Swepco if it wasn't double/triple the cost because of shipping to Canada.

I'll have to go for either Redline MTL or a Type-F fluid. Any thoughts?

Craig in Canada · May 22, 2006

I'm using MTL in my E39 528 (ZF 5-speed) right now. I've used factory (MTF-LT-1), Redline D4ATF, Royal Purple Synchromax and now Redline MTL. I moved to MTL on the feeling that ATF is too thin to protect everything properly and overall transmission life was being sacrificed for improved "luxury" shifting properties at all temperatures.

I give RP Synchromax a slight edge over D4ATF in shifting, but not much. Ambient temps haven't really been below 10C since I put the MTL in. I can feel that shifting is a tiny bit slower when cold, but I'm not sure I would have noticed if someone changed it without telling me. I do notice that non-synchro actions (like R-to-1 or N-to-1) are much smoother than when I was using any of the ATFs.

If you have a serious shifting problem, I would try RP Synchromax or Redline MTL - both have additives specifically for synchros. D4ATF does not. Perhaps since you have a "serious" synchro issue I'd try the Royal Purple.

Craig.

Alan · May 22, 2006

BTW, the BMW MTF is up to MTF-LT-3 now.

That's what in the 6spd of my E90.

BMW tranny and Synchromesh?

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