BMW N54 turbo

[RMG]

I need an oil recommendation for my daily driver, a 2009 BMW 335i with an N54 engine.
I usually have the oil changed every 6 months or 3-4000 miles, whichever comes first ( a.k.a. Jake Raby's rule for those familiar with Porsche forums).
Despite being used daily the car sees lots of cold starts and short trips here in the harsh New England climate so oil dilution is an issue.
From the moment I got the car brand new back in 2009 I used strictly GC 0w-30 but this oil has become hard to get and recently lost the LL-01 seal of approval so I am ready to switch to something that might be better suited for my application. My priorities are maximum turbo/ engine protection possible and less intake valve deposits while fighting with oil dilution/ short trips.
I would like to try the new BMW oil 0w-30 but I couldn't find much about how this product performs.
I would prefer an oil from the Mobil, Motul or Penzoil/ Shell offering. I don't trust Liqui Moly, Amsoil, Fuchs, Royal Purple etc.
Thanks,

 

[MCompact]

In a purely street driven car BMW TPT 0W-30 is more than adequate.

 

[Bailes1992]

Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 seems to be quite highly regarded and certainly in the UK is very cheap. I can't remember what the Penzoil equivalent is but it's the one with the Ferrari approval.

You may be able to get some of the older Castrol Edge 0w40 for the next few months before the new bottles come through without LL01. That said, if it was me, I wouldn't be worried about the fact it's lost LL01 with a car of your age. It's still a great oil.

If you're struggling for LL01 oil and you want an approval then it might be worth looking for an LL04 oil. I'd imagine they're easier to find, will offer the same protection and now the US has low sulfur gas TBN shouldn't be an issue.

Any oil with LL01 or LL04 approval will easily see you right for 1 year or 8000miles.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The N54 is spec'd for LL01, LL01FE, LL04, LL12FE

BMW "Dealer" 0w30 oil is LL01FE (A5/B5) Shell GTL.

IMO being that the N54 is problematic with regards to buildup on the intake valves I would look at LL04 (C3). Years ago Lubrizol stated that C3 oils would reduce the rate of accumulation with regards to DI engines. You can buy that from the dealer as well or mail order from various parts houses (FCP Euro). Maybe an oil which not only has LL04 but also 229.51 and maybe 504/507.

GL.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Could be the best choice: Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 or 0w30, a pile of German specs, very qualified. Good HTHS levels, more than what LL-01FE or LL-12FE specs. ....Advance Auto Parts, Pep Boys, or amazon.com
The M1 ESP 0w40 cousin gets discussed some on these forums since GM uses them in new Corvettes now, intended to blast around the track and get driven hard. A lot of engineering goes into those ESP oils.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by RMG
I need an oil recommendation for my daily driver, a 2009 BMW 335i with an N54 engine.
I usually have the oil changed every 6 months or 3-4000 miles, whichever comes first ( a.k.a. Jake Raby's rule for those familiar with Porsche forums).
Despite being used daily the car sees lots of cold starts and short trips here in the harsh New England climate so oil dilution is an issue.
From the moment I got the car brand new back in 2009 I used strictly GC 0w-30 but this oil has become hard to get and recently lost the LL-01 seal of approval so I am ready to switch to something that might be better suited for my application. My priorities are maximum turbo/ engine protection possible and less intake valve deposits while fighting with oil dilution/ short trips.
I would like to try the new BMW oil 0w-30 but I couldn't find much about how this product performs.
I would prefer an oil from the Mobil, Motul or Penzoil/ Shell offering. I don't trust Liqui Moly, Amsoil, Fuchs, Royal Purple etc.
Thanks,

I would not lose sleep of LL01. As long as oil is MB229.5 and Porsche A40, you are fine. BMW LL specifications are bit (emphasis on bit) more stringent in oxidation requirements, but considering you change interval, that is not of concern. Also, it seems that BMW is phasing out LL01, not because Castrol cannot meet it (LL01 is not as stringent as MB229.5). Theya re sticking to LL04 as latest Castrol reformulations in Europe are approved for LL04.
However, if you still want seal of approval from BMW< I would go with Valvoline 5W40 MST that has LL04 approval or Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40. BMW 5W30 TPT is good and you can still get it online.
If it was my car I would not go with these latest attempts by BMW to address city driving habits with FE oils.

 

[JimKo]

I'm happy with Total Quartz Energy 9000 5W-40 for my N55. The internals are sparkling clean, it has all the good specs and it is like $28/5Qts at rmeuropean.com

 

[AirBull]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The N54 is spec'd for LL01, LL01FE, LL04, LL12FE

BMW "Dealer" 0w30 oil is LL01FE (A5/B5) Shell GTL.

IMO being that the N54 is problematic with regards to buildup on the intake valves I would look at LL04 (C3). Years ago Lubrizol stated that C3 oils would reduce the rate of accumulation with regards to DI engines. You can buy that from the dealer as well or mail order from various parts houses (FCP Euro). Maybe an oil which not only has LL04 but also 229.51 and maybe 504/507.

GL.
Be careful on switching over to LL-04 just yet here in the US. Yes, the EPA began mandating that US refineries employ Tier 3 gasoline standards, lowering sulfur content in US gasoline down to 10 ppm, but this is part of a three year phased process where for smaller refineries, they gave them a three year time period to phase in the new requirements. The 10 ppm is an average on an annual basis and in fact, a single batch can go as high as 80 ppm sulfur. Beginning January 1, 2020, only then will they mandate 10 ppm without exception. So, for now, BMW continues to say no LL-04 in the US on gasoline motors, for the time being.

Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 02/2019
3.1 Technically suitable engine oils for petrol engines:
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-m5-lim/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1PSryV8

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by AirBull
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The N54 is spec'd for LL01, LL01FE, LL04, LL12FE

BMW "Dealer" 0w30 oil is LL01FE (A5/B5) Shell GTL.

IMO being that the N54 is problematic with regards to buildup on the intake valves I would look at LL04 (C3). Years ago Lubrizol stated that C3 oils would reduce the rate of accumulation with regards to DI engines. You can buy that from the dealer as well or mail order from various parts houses (FCP Euro). Maybe an oil which not only has LL04 but also 229.51 and maybe 504/507.

GL.
Be careful on switching over to LL-04 just yet here in the US. Yes, the EPA began mandating that US refineries employ Tier 3 gasoline standards, lowering sulfur content in US gasoline down to 10 ppm, but this is part of a three year phased process where for smaller refineries, they gave them a three year time period to phase in the new requirements. The 10 ppm is an average on an annual basis and in fact, a single batch can go as high as 80 ppm sulfur. Beginning January 1, 2020, only then will they mandate 10 ppm without exception. So, for now, BMW continues to say no LL-04 in the US on gasoline motors, for the time being.

Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 02/2019
3.1 Technically suitable engine oils for petrol engines:
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-m5-lim/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1PSryV8




Right but if you're cutting the OCI to 5k miles then it's irrelevant.

 

[AirBull]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by AirBull
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The N54 is spec'd for LL01, LL01FE, LL04, LL12FE

BMW "Dealer" 0w30 oil is LL01FE (A5/B5) Shell GTL.

IMO being that the N54 is problematic with regards to buildup on the intake valves I would look at LL04 (C3). Years ago Lubrizol stated that C3 oils would reduce the rate of accumulation with regards to DI engines. You can buy that from the dealer as well or mail order from various parts houses (FCP Euro). Maybe an oil which not only has LL04 but also 229.51 and maybe 504/507.

GL.
Be careful on switching over to LL-04 just yet here in the US. Yes, the EPA began mandating that US refineries employ Tier 3 gasoline standards, lowering sulfur content in US gasoline down to 10 ppm, but this is part of a three year phased process where for smaller refineries, they gave them a three year time period to phase in the new requirements. The 10 ppm is an average on an annual basis and in fact, a single batch can go as high as 80 ppm sulfur. Beginning January 1, 2020, only then will they mandate 10 ppm without exception. So, for now, BMW continues to say no LL-04 in the US on gasoline motors, for the time being.

Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 02/2019
3.1 Technically suitable engine oils for petrol engines:
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-m5-lim/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1PSryV8




Right but if you're cutting the OCI to 5k miles then it's irrelevant.
Why is that irrelevant? I really like the LL-04 oils better but even Ravenol suggested that I stick with LL-01 for now (EPA Tier 3 gasoline gives sulfur content exceptions (up to 80ppm) to small refineries through 1/1/2020,) and certainly while still under warranty. BMW is apparently concerned about the Sulfur content in US gasoline with LL-04, as apparently, this wreaked havoc on some BMW V8's in the late 1990's and scorched cylinder walls. What does the interval of the OCI have to do with the equation and amount of sulfur that may still be present in the US gasoline? LL-04 lower's SA in half (good,) but also limits the amount of P and S in the oil. (Not sure what Min T is?)

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by AirBull
What does the interval of the OCI have to do with the equation and amount of sulfur that may still be present in the US gasoline?


It has everything to do with it. It's not like higher sulfur kills a low SAPS oil instantly.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by AirBull
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by AirBull
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The N54 is spec'd for LL01, LL01FE, LL04, LL12FE

BMW "Dealer" 0w30 oil is LL01FE (A5/B5) Shell GTL.

IMO being that the N54 is problematic with regards to buildup on the intake valves I would look at LL04 (C3). Years ago Lubrizol stated that C3 oils would reduce the rate of accumulation with regards to DI engines. You can buy that from the dealer as well or mail order from various parts houses (FCP Euro). Maybe an oil which not only has LL04 but also 229.51 and maybe 504/507.

GL.
Be careful on switching over to LL-04 just yet here in the US. Yes, the EPA began mandating that US refineries employ Tier 3 gasoline standards, lowering sulfur content in US gasoline down to 10 ppm, but this is part of a three year phased process where for smaller refineries, they gave them a three year time period to phase in the new requirements. The 10 ppm is an average on an annual basis and in fact, a single batch can go as high as 80 ppm sulfur. Beginning January 1, 2020, only then will they mandate 10 ppm without exception. So, for now, BMW continues to say no LL-04 in the US on gasoline motors, for the time being.

Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 02/2019
3.1 Technically suitable engine oils for petrol engines:
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-m5-lim/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1PSryV8




Right but if you're cutting the OCI to 5k miles then it's irrelevant.
Why is that irrelevant? I really like the LL-04 oils better but even Ravenol suggested that I stick with LL-01 for now (EPA Tier 3 gasoline gives sulfur content exceptions (up to 80ppm) to small refineries through 1/1/2020,) and certainly while still under warranty. BMW is apparently concerned about the Sulfur content in US gasoline with LL-04, as apparently, this wreaked havoc on some BMW V8's in the late 1990's and scorched cylinder walls. What does the interval of the OCI have to do with the equation and amount of sulfur that may still be present in the US gasoline? LL-04 lower's SA in half (good,) but also limits the amount of P and S in the oil. (Not sure what Min T is?)






- The sulfur issue with BMW V8's back in the 1990's was due to metallurgy. US gasoline was really high in sulfur and it would attack the nickel of the Nickel-Silicone bore coating. It was not a lubricant issue.

- Euro oil certs historically revolved around long drain intervals. This is key with regards to understanding euro spec oils because they're all about resource conservation so cutting oil change frequency by 50 percent goes a long way to meeting that goal. More stringent emissions requirements required the use of low sulphur fuels (ULSD/ULSG) AND different oil additive chemistry in order to insure longevity of the associated emissions components (DPF, TWC) while simultaneously maintaining the long drain OCI.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted by AirBull
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The N54 is spec'd for LL01, LL01FE, LL04, LL12FE

BMW "Dealer" 0w30 oil is LL01FE (A5/B5) Shell GTL.

IMO being that the N54 is problematic with regards to buildup on the intake valves I would look at LL04 (C3). Years ago Lubrizol stated that C3 oils would reduce the rate of accumulation with regards to DI engines. You can buy that from the dealer as well or mail order from various parts houses (FCP Euro). Maybe an oil which not only has LL04 but also 229.51 and maybe 504/507.

GL.
Be careful on switching over to LL-04 just yet here in the US. Yes, the EPA began mandating that US refineries employ Tier 3 gasoline standards, lowering sulfur content in US gasoline down to 10 ppm, but this is part of a three year phased process where for smaller refineries, they gave them a three year time period to phase in the new requirements. The 10 ppm is an average on an annual basis and in fact, a single batch can go as high as 80 ppm sulfur. Beginning January 1, 2020, only then will they mandate 10 ppm without exception. So, for now, BMW continues to say no LL-04 in the US on gasoline motors, for the time being.

Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 02/2019
3.1 Technically suitable engine oils for petrol engines:
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-m5-lim/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1PSryV8



LL-04 was intro in conjunction with 50 ppm Sulfur Euro 4 gasoline fuels.
IMHO, I don't see any issue with Tier 3 fuels really.

 

[AirBull]

Originally Posted by zeng
Originally Posted by AirBull
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The N54 is spec'd for LL01, LL01FE, LL04, LL12FE

BMW "Dealer" 0w30 oil is LL01FE (A5/B5) Shell GTL.

IMO being that the N54 is problematic with regards to buildup on the intake valves I would look at LL04 (C3). Years ago Lubrizol stated that C3 oils would reduce the rate of accumulation with regards to DI engines. You can buy that from the dealer as well or mail order from various parts houses (FCP Euro). Maybe an oil which not only has LL04 but also 229.51 and maybe 504/507.

GL.
Be careful on switching over to LL-04 just yet here in the US. Yes, the EPA began mandating that US refineries employ Tier 3 gasoline standards, lowering sulfur content in US gasoline down to 10 ppm, but this is part of a three year phased process where for smaller refineries, they gave them a three year time period to phase in the new requirements. The 10 ppm is an average on an annual basis and in fact, a single batch can go as high as 80 ppm sulfur. Beginning January 1, 2020, only then will they mandate 10 ppm without exception. So, for now, BMW continues to say no LL-04 in the US on gasoline motors, for the time being.

Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 02/2019
3.1 Technically suitable engine oils for petrol engines:
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-m5-lim/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1PSryV8



LL-04 was intro in conjunction with 50 ppm Sulfur Euro 4 gasoline fuels.
IMHO, I don't see any issue with Tier 3 fuels really.
Good point. I was jumping to assumptions that LL-04 was requiring 10 ppm S in petrol engines per Eu5 regs, but it's actually was 50 ppm per EU4. Is the only issue with LL-04 oils in running extended OCI's past 5,000 to 6,000 miles? (I don't intend to put that many miles on the car annually, anyways.)

I'm looking at the UOA of my BMW 0w-30 (LL-01FE) and some VOA's of a couple of LL-04's, and the only big difference looks like they just lowered the amount of Ca from around 2,600 down to around 1,800. Slightly reduced levels of P and Zn, as well. The Ca is a detergent - so how does BMW say what used to be a higher sulfur content in US gasoline make a difference if I used an LL-04 with gasoline that had 50 ppm or higher S content?

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by AirBull
[Good point. I was jumping to assumptions that LL-04 was requiring 10 ppm S in petrol engines per Eu5 regs, but it's actually was 50 ppm per EU4. Is the only issue with LL-04 oils in running extended OCI's past 5,000 to 6,000 miles? (I don't intend to put that many miles on the car annually, anyways.)
In the U.S., Tier2 30 ppm sulfur has been the norm for about 9 years now, which is lower than EU4's 50 from 2005-2009. I don't see any big problem with LL-04 based on that. And, like you say, fuel is getting cleaner as Tier3 10 ppm sulfur is being phased in. You could run LL-04 6,000 miles or 1-year, yet I don't think it's necessary in 2019.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by edyvw
..... if you still want seal of approval from BMW
That's my and Lubrizol's take on it too. See spider chart below, as MB 229.52 alone swallows up LL-04 nicely. BMW specs are really unnecessary if an oil meets the highest performance specs from a combined GM, VW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, & Peugeot, with SN gasoline qualification, as in Mobil1 ESP 5w30 HTHS 3.5 oil.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by zeng
Originally Posted by AirBull
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The N54 is spec'd for LL01, LL01FE, LL04, LL12FE

BMW "Dealer" 0w30 oil is LL01FE (A5/B5) Shell GTL.

IMO being that the N54 is problematic with regards to buildup on the intake valves I would look at LL04 (C3). Years ago Lubrizol stated that C3 oils would reduce the rate of accumulation with regards to DI engines. You can buy that from the dealer as well or mail order from various parts houses (FCP Euro). Maybe an oil which not only has LL04 but also 229.51 and maybe 504/507.

GL.
Be careful on switching over to LL-04 just yet here in the US. Yes, the EPA began mandating that US refineries employ Tier 3 gasoline standards, lowering sulfur content in US gasoline down to 10 ppm, but this is part of a three year phased process where for smaller refineries, they gave them a three year time period to phase in the new requirements. The 10 ppm is an average on an annual basis and in fact, a single batch can go as high as 80 ppm sulfur. Beginning January 1, 2020, only then will they mandate 10 ppm without exception. So, for now, BMW continues to say no LL-04 in the US on gasoline motors, for the time being.

Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 02/2019
3.1 Technically suitable engine oils for petrol engines:
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-m5-lim/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1PSryV8



LL-04 was intro in conjunction with 50 ppm Sulfur Euro 4 gasoline fuels.
IMHO, I don't see any issue with Tier 3 fuels really.

LL04 was introduced in conjunction with low-sulfur diesel, not gasoline. LL01 was introduced for Euro 3 and Euro 4 gasoline.
Once 10ppm gasoline was introduced BMW started to recommend LL04 for BMW gasoline engines in Europe.
Another reason why BMW recommends LL01, VW was recommending VW502.00 Mercedes MB229.5 for gasoline engines is due to different burn due to more stringent NOx requirements in the US.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by edyvw
..... if you still want seal of approval from BMW
That's my and Lubrizol's take on it too. See spider chart below, as MB 229.52 alone swallows up LL-04 nicely. BMW specs are really unnecessary if an oil meets the highest performance specs from a combined GM, VW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, & Peugeot, with SN gasoline qualification, as in Mobil1 ESP 5w30 HTHS 3.5 oil.




Don't forget that this tool can only be used to compare current-previous certs from the same manufacture and is not representative of performance across manufacturers.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
That's my and Lubrizol's take on it too. See spider chart below, as MB 229.52 alone swallows up LL-04 nicely. BMW specs are really unnecessary if an oil meets the highest performance specs from a combined GM, VW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, & Peugeot, with SN gasoline qualification, as in Mobil1 ESP 5w30 HTHS 3.5 oil.
Don't forget that this tool can only be used to compare current-previous certs from the same manufacture and is not representative of performance across manufacturers.


That is CYA on Lubrizol's part ! Lawyers made them put that in there to prevent being sued if they messed something up.
.... Example: You can put in dexos1 and compare it to 229.6 and LL-01FE, and you'll see the appropriate scoring (ranking) of performance attributes.
Read the Afton Specification Handbook if you still doubt the relative performance ranking.