BMW image

[VeeDubb]

In my experience, the worst tailgaters are soccer moms driving a big SUV talking on the cell phone. Second worst are soccer moms driving minivans talking on the cell phone. I rarely get tailgated by a BMW because they don't stay behind you long enough to qualify as tailgating.

 

[Anduril]

The worst tailgaters in my opinion are redneck douchébags in huge lifted 4x4 trucks overcompensating for something small between their legs. Not only do they ride your [censored] like they want in, they also blind you with their lifted headlights.

 

[brianl703]

The worst tailgaters in my opinion are women driving any 2-door "sporty" car.

 

[Travis99LS1]

I go to school for BMW...and to be honest, i never really knew so many people felt this way about the brand. All i can say is if your a true car enthusiast than it would only take 1 drive in an M3 or M5 for you to know what the brand is about..I can honestly say that in my opinion, there's nothing on the road thats more advanced than BMW. You guys wouldnt believe the amount of control modules on a new 7 series..It uses 2 fiber optic bus systems..Or lets take the E60 M5 for example..with 10 individual throttle body's..I think that people who talk junk about them are just jealous that there not driving one. Of course this is just my opinion..I love cars with a passion..I tend to look at the car seperately from the person who is driving it. I mean who cares if the guy driving it is a prick?...its not the cars fault..its still an awesome car..And i can at least appreciate that.

 

[97tbird]

I know several people who have BMW 330ci, M series etc...none of them are arrogant...they're pretty quiet, decent people, and drive in a very normal manner...

 

[gedcruise]

VeeDub,
I have to agree with you. One of our cars is an old 7-series stick, and I really do enjoy driving it. Massively tall gearing, a very heavy feel, but good grip and great ride. Also, more resistant to rust than an old Benz, of which we have had a few as well. My point was that too many people buy these cars as status symbols, not because they really appreciate them.
Incidentally, we have had a VW. It was an '81 Vanagon. I eventually rebuilt its engine. I really liked the Vanagon, and wish I had not sold it.

 

[ShiningArcanine]

When I see a BMW, I think that the owner paid great quantities of money to buy a car that does not last very long.

 

[JMG]

I beleive I read in a Finacial book that 80% of all BMWs are leased....In the same book it says leasing is the most expensive way to buy a car you can't afford. Heck for $299 a month who can't lease a BMW?

 

[Aldaris]

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The worst tailgaters in my opinion are redneck douchébags in huge lifted 4x4 trucks overcompensating for something small between their legs. Not only do they ride your [censored] like they want in, they also blind you with their lifted headlights.

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Yep, I have nothing but the foulest ill-will towards them and their families.

 

[ShiningArcanine]

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I beleive I read in a Finacial book that 80% of all BMWs are leased....In the same book it says leasing is the most expensive way to buy a car you can't afford. Heck for $299 a month who can't lease a BMW?

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People who lease vehicles typically get new leases when the old lease expires, so they rarely have to deal with the quality problems that BMW vehicles have as they age. Typically, it is the new owner who buys the "certified pre-owned" BMW that has to pay for the repair costs. Those people that lease vehicles with the intention of actually buying them (in an attempt to take advantage of the depreciation) almost always lose money versus the situation where they would have purchased the car instead of leasing it, as if you want to keep the vehicle, you will pay them almost anything so you can keep it and the dealerships know that.

The only situation where I would imagine that someone might save money by leasing a vehicle would be if he leased the car to make commutes between the coasts, making a round trip every two weeks such that he puts >468,000 miles on it during a standard three year lease, although it is likely that additional expenses at the end of the lease due to damage resulting from things like rocks striking the vehicle during the long coast to coast drives would ensure that the dealer wins in the end.

 

[crw]

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I go to school for BMW...and to be honest, i never really knew so many people felt this way about the brand. All i can say is if your a true car enthusiast than it would only take 1 drive in an M3 or M5 for you to know what the brand is about..I can honestly say that in my opinion, there's nothing on the road thats more advanced than BMW. You guys wouldnt believe the amount of control modules on a new 7 series..It uses 2 fiber optic bus systems..Or lets take the E60 M5 for example..with 10 individual throttle body's..I think that people who talk junk about them are just jealous that there not driving one. Of course this is just my opinion..I love cars with a passion..I tend to look at the car seperately from the person who is driving it. I mean who cares if the guy driving it is a prick?...its not the cars fault..its still an awesome car..And i can at least appreciate that.

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I am a semiconductor engineer. At a recent industry conference, an automotive theme was the backdrop. One guy commented:

The new BMW M6 (actually I haven't heard of that one) has up to 100 ECU's. That's just the beginning of the complexity. It results in an overloaded network with multiple bottlenecks. It's getting too complex and error prone. One example cited, "In the middle of the night all the windows go down." Imagine a problem with adaptive cruise control.

Verification has become a big design problem. Another industry veteran said, "Is it plug and play or plug and pray?"

What will we do by 2010 when cars hold 100 million lines of code?

On the bright side:

1987 - average sedan had 120 hp with 16/23 mpg
now - average sedan has 190 hp with 19/28 mpg
with much better emissions and longer warranties

Anyway, this isn't necessarily BMW specific. All cars are heading this way.

 

[ShiningArcanine]

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Quote:

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I go to school for BMW...and to be honest, i never really knew so many people felt this way about the brand. All i can say is if your a true car enthusiast than it would only take 1 drive in an M3 or M5 for you to know what the brand is about..I can honestly say that in my opinion, there's nothing on the road thats more advanced than BMW. You guys wouldnt believe the amount of control modules on a new 7 series..It uses 2 fiber optic bus systems..Or lets take the E60 M5 for example..with 10 individual throttle body's..I think that people who talk junk about them are just jealous that there not driving one. Of course this is just my opinion..I love cars with a passion..I tend to look at the car seperately from the person who is driving it. I mean who cares if the guy driving it is a prick?...its not the cars fault..its still an awesome car..And i can at least appreciate that.

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I am a semiconductor engineer. At a recent industry conference, an automotive theme was the backdrop. One guy commented:

The new BMW M6 (actually I haven't heard of that one) has up to 100 ECU's. That's just the beginning of the complexity. It results in an overloaded network with multiple bottlenecks. It's getting too complex and error prone. One example cited, "In the middle of the night all the windows go down." Imagine a problem with adaptive cruise control.

Verification has become a big design problem. Another industry veteran said, "Is it plug and play or plug and pray?"

What will we do by 2010 when cars hold 100 million lines of code?

On the bright side:

1987 - average sedan had 120 hp with 16/23 mpg
now - average sedan has 190 hp with 19/28 mpg
with much better emissions and longer warranties

Anyway, this isn't necessarily BMW specific. All cars are heading this way.

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I believe Toyota is working on integrating all of its electronic control units into one master unit that will run a single operating system, which should dramatically simplify things, even after redundancy and fault tolerance are added.

 

[Bror Jace]

Back to the original topic, it matters greatly how people perceive BMW owners. Two big reasons:

1) BMW may alter their products in a way to try and discourage these 'unsavory elements' from driving their cars ... and people who like BMWs may not like the changes.

2) Idiots driving a certain brand of car may raise insurance rates for everyone driving a similar car.

 

[windnsea00]

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When I see a BMW, I think that the owner paid great quantities of money to buy a car that does not last very long.

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Ignorance.

Anyway, all cars have stereotypes so I say just buy whatever one likes and not worry about what some random other person on the road thinks about you. It's pretty pathetic that one would judge someone else solely on a material object.

 

[surfstar]

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It's pretty pathetic that one would judge someone else solely on a material object.

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Is this not the basis of marketing in our world today?

Image is everything. iPods, expensive hand bags, cars, clothes, it doesn't matter what it is


beemers and benz' are "standard" in SoCal nowadays. You gotta rock something higher end to even turn heads.

 

[Matt_S]

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I am a semiconductor engineer. At a recent industry conference, an automotive theme was the backdrop. One guy commented:

The new BMW M6 (actually I haven't heard of that one) has up to 100 ECU's. That's just the beginning of the complexity. It results in an overloaded network with multiple bottlenecks. It's getting too complex and error prone. One example cited, "In the middle of the night all the windows go down." Imagine a problem with adaptive cruise control.

Verification has become a big design problem. Another industry veteran said, "Is it plug and play or plug and pray?"

What will we do by 2010 when cars hold 100 million lines of code?

On the bright side:

1987 - average sedan had 120 hp with 16/23 mpg
now - average sedan has 190 hp with 19/28 mpg
with much better emissions and longer warranties

Anyway, this isn't necessarily BMW specific. All cars are heading this way.

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That's more true of European cars than of Japanese and especially American cars. I attended a training sesssion regarding vehicle computer busses (networks). European cars on average have many more nodes on the vehicle computer bus than their Asian competitors, which typically have a lot more than an average American car. American cars, IIRC, range from 2 - 3 dozen nodes while Asian cars are up near 100 and European cars are well north of 100.

If it's true that Toyota is working on reducing that to 1 master computer, that would certainly tend to simplify the vehicle and improve quality by making integration easier.

 

[1sttruck]

Smaller BMWs seem like the most common vehicle to squeze in the larger space that I leave behind vehicles in front of me, with their head level with my almost 1000lb diesel engine. Darwinian forces in action.

 

[Jett Rink]

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When I see a BMW, I think that the owner paid great quantities of money to buy a car that does not last very long.

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Oh, well, 18 years...and counting. I regularly see BMWs built in the 1980s on the roads doing their job as daily drivers. The big-six and little-six engines are capable of going for alot of miles. 300,000 mile plus is not out of reach with these cars.

Just about any car has a weakness. For BMW, in general, you want to watch the cooling system. When BMWs die, it is more often than not because somebody has neglected the cooling system, and it has overheated. Come to think of it, that is probably true for most cars. With all of the electronics in the current ones, that may or may not be a problem.

They're great cars. Get behind the wheel of an older 3 series with a manual transmission sometime on a twisting country road. If you really like driving, you'll enjoy the car.

There's even some classic 2002 models from the 1970s on the road around here. The 2002 is prone to rust, if that is what you are basing your "they don't last" opinion on.

If I had the cash, I'd get a Porsche 911. Those are great cars, doesn't matter to me if only somebody much wealthier than myself can drive it. Maybe someday I'll find a great used one that some enthusiast has doted over. My philosophy is to just admire an automaker who produces a car that really makes driving fun. Most cars out there are seriously deficient in the "fun to drive" category. Hats off to BMW and Porsche for their efforts!

 

[andyd]

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When I see a BMW, I think that the owner paid great quantities of money to buy a car that does not last very long.

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Oh, well, 18 years...and counting. I regularly see BMWs built in the 1980s on the roads doing their job as daily drivers. The big-six and little-six engines are capable of going for alot of miles. 300,000 mile plus is not out of reach with these cars.

X3

My 88 528e is succumbing to terminal tinworm. At 345k miles the drive train is pretty much original. Curiosity drove me to lift the valve cover at 330k. for the 1st time. I like the car so much , in '06 I bought 2 more 88s.

Just about any car has a weakness. For BMW, in general, you want to watch the cooling system. When BMWs die, it is more often than not because somebody has neglected the cooling system, and it has overheated. Come to think of it, that is probably true for most cars. With all of the electronics in the current ones, that may or may not be a problem.

They're great cars. Get behind the wheel of an older 3 series with a manual transmission sometime on a twisting country road. If you really like driving, you'll enjoy the car.

There's even some classic 2002 models from the 1970s on the road around here. The 2002 is prone to rust, if that is what you are basing your "they don't last" opinion on.

If I had the cash, I'd get a Porsche 911. Those are great cars, doesn't matter to me if only somebody much wealthier than myself can drive it. Maybe someday I'll find a great used one that some enthusiast has doted over. My philosophy is to just admire an automaker who produces a car that really makes driving fun. Most cars out there are seriously deficient in the "fun to drive" category. Hats off to BMW and Porsche for their efforts!

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[ffracer]

I have an M3 4-dr manual. Best practical car I have ever owned from a driving perspective. A sheer joy to drive.

When it works. BMWs are not 300k cars. Trust me. I race and know lots of BMW owners what tuner parts, etc. to make them faster, corner better, more durable, and these ain't Hondas. They have a lot of short cuts that can't take old age. At 70k, expect to do a lot of rebuilding if you drive it anything beyond Buick like driving.

Electrical, body hardware, trim, suspension joints, oil pan are way underdesigned for cost. Cheap, cheap, cheap. The interior on the other hand is nice.

Having said that, they've got the handling down pat.

Why can't Toyota/Lexus make cars that aren't appliances and why can't BMW make one that lasts?