wemay
Site Donor 2023
Yup, To make the cars eligible for the DTM series
BMW iM3 - The Future Electric M3 Super Sedan
- Thread starter JeffKeryk
- Start date
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Yes. They really did not intend to introduce those cars. But DTM competition went off the rails, and BMW and MB got into the war. If BMW developed M3 independent of DTM it would probably be a version of 2.5 inline 6.
There’s plenty of high horsepower DCTs out there. Is it easier to take an existing ZF box off the shelf? Of course.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Hp not torque. Torque is the problem.
Of course, one could make DCT that sustains ever increasing torque, but price and complexity!
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
not when it comes to bodywork. Model 3 is at the same level as a Dacia Logan according to TÜV
Who cares what you opinion is? Go play in your tesla EV forum and leave us in peace with your stupid tech comments.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2023
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- 858
Are they in housing this, or off the shelf with in house firmware?
I vote for the second one though I’m a bit of a DCT fanboy. These days I’d take one over a manual which is what I think some companies like VW were hoping would happen by not improving their manuals. I’ve had ZF boxes and they were great for torque converter autos, but at the end of the day it’s still a torque converter auto.
I’d be curious to see what the hold up would be with making a high torque DCT. Sure there would be costs involved, but it’s a manual with a fancy automated clutch design. At least in the tuner VW/Audi world even the high power ones that are tuned just up line pressure to increase clutch clamping force. I did that on my car even.
I’m sure there’s a bit more to it but I think BMW just found it cheaper to just use an off the shelf solution instead of the one enthusiasts want. Torque couldn’t be a that big of an issue. It would be a matter of clutch design to handle more. Enthusiast cars are starting to phone it in. There’s only so much that can be done before the market for them dies I guess. Either that or BMW doesn’t want to admit they aren’t the “Ultimate Driving Machine” anymore and excuses work better.
Umm… (looks around) …this is the EV section of the site. Oh it’s a thread on an EV vehicle too. If anything my complaining about BMW throwing out DCTs is out of place.
Dunno. But the unified functionality could produce something really amazing. Sorta like the hp wars of the 60's.
I seriously doubt this level of car functionality consolidation exists off the shelf today.
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Digital transformation is the process of adopting digital technology to create new or modify existing products, services, and operations.
Digital transformation is coming whether you like it or not.
By the way my thread is about BMW, not Tesla. I find BMW's tech advancements fascinating.
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Your endless posting of his kind of crap is becoming intolerable.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
The problem is that you think companies will adopt whatever Tesla is doing.
Tesla is a trend. It is a trend for people who are too lazy to drive and are obsessed with iPad in the car, more than the car itself.
They enjoy the screen, not what is around the car.
@edyvw respectfully, you are missing my point. I am talking about the "Heart of Joy" control unit. You might want to refer to post #1.
Adopting Tesla's tech first is exactly what BMW is working on and I wish them well. The result could be flat out amazing.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
There is more to it. BMW has to adopt the trend and will market whatever some IT guy in San Francisco wants to hear and show to his buddies. You are forgetting that Tesla IS BMW! The suspension etc. in Tesla is a pure copy of BMW. So, spare me the superiority of Tesla. That might fly among someone who is impressed by iPad in Tesla.
If Tesla would only adopt brakes from BMW, might have a contender.
You’re right, it’s about an iPad. And BMW is living on their heritage with very little connection to what made them great. There’s more to it than all of that. Everyone is losing their way and Tesla has nothing to live up to. The best thing about a Tesla is that I know it’s not perfect and it’s simple. All these “car guys” are complaining that cars aren’t as good as they used to be and of course this is because of modern compromises with safety and emissions.
I’ve always been into cars. Heritage plays a huge part of it. My favorite thing about our Model 3? It does what I ask of it and I don’t honestly care what happens to it. I’d just replace it if totaled. It’s an appliance on wheels. It’s a fun one at that. It’s a freeing feeling I’ve never had with any other vehicle.
So BMW could make the greatest EV the world has ever seen and we’ll all bash it for losing its soul. The fact is that the market is struggling with this EV thing and they seem to not know what to do to make their own. I don’t particularly care for how VW has done things either because I see them as a manufacturer of fun small cars which was what drew me to the brand. They aren’t doing much of that these days. Tesla has only made cars to do what they do now and no one has designed every piece of it from scratch from their first car. They have suppliers like anyone else and select what they think is best for their product. I’d say it’s fair that Tesla is more of a tech and ideas company than they are an auto manufacturer.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
BMW is in full offensive on ICE field and PHEV field. Any car requiring iPad for simple functions is NOT simple. It is simple for manufacturers to make. It is not simple for end user.
Before EU dropped 2035 ICE ban, BMW bet on ICE until 2050, obviously rightly so. Now? Who knows. They don’t need EV to survive at this point. They can experiment with whatever they want. Including how will their byers accept that vehicle. There is trend of going back to traditional physical commands in vehicles bcs. most people don’t care about huge iPad in vehicle, they want practicality.
Add to that that even today, companies use BMW E39 as benchmark how to design suspension. There is MUCH more Tesla can learn from BMW than other way around. It is about whole package. Tesla is Ikea on wheels. Ikea furniture is ok when there is no other furniture store.
Mentions simplicity and BMW.
I’m not sure where you get practicality and iPads, but tablets and buttons isn’t a use case issue if things are where they are supposed to be. That’s if anything a software issue. My car is a sea of buttons. It’s what I’m used to. I find the button layout of a Porsche overwhelming so I believe there’s a happy medium. I don’t love the Tesla layout, but it works and stuff is where I expect it to be since they’ve fought the urge to keep things ever changing too muck this up.
If I had to assemble the car after it arrived you might have something with that IKEA thing. To be honest though I’ve never seen anyone have this much faith in modern BMW and as an auto enthusiast I can’t really think of what to make of it. I was going to say that I haven’t seen another German manufacturer screw it up worse, but Mercedes has. I think Porsche might be the best case scenario but they’re printing money with 911s so it’s hard to say they’ve done bad.
You mentioned the E39. That might be a good example to show my point. Car companies are emulating BMWs of yore. Maybe BMW should try doing that too. I’d probably want one then.
You're thinking of the E36 M3.
The E30 M3 was promoted for the '88 MY alongside the 325i models that supplanted the eta-engined 325e models starting in '87. That engine briefly carried over in the base model, which lost the 'e'.
The M3 carried a ~$35k sticker, compared to the $28k 325is, which was only down 25 bhp and about half second slower 0-60.
For most folks, the silky six, more comfortable ride and lower sticker price for similar measured performance made a lot more sense.
But the M3, being a homologation model needing to satisfy a 5,000 unit production run, wasn't made for them, it was made to go touring car racing, and was quite successful at it. They eventually produced a bit under 18,000 of them over a five year span, with about 5,000 or so sold in the U.S. The low-mileage '88 that sold for $250k a few years ago is an outlier, but their values are high.
However, back then, BMW NA didn't consider it a success, and were reluctant to import the E36 M3, which would have to be priced too high in its original form. It carried the S50B30 six, with single-VANOS on the intake, producing 286 (European) horses.
BMW enthusiasts, particularly the CCA club members, weren't happy about that decision, and lobbied for the M3 to be brought to the U.S.
They got their wish, but with a compromise -- the U.S. model would get an enlarged version of the M50B25 engines in the x25i models, the 3.0l S50B30US with 240 bhp, not the fancier "Euro" engine, detuned or not. That allowed them to smartly set the sticker on the new '95 model, like the E30 that ended in '91 MY, at the same ~$35k. It turned out to be a hit.
When BMW updated their engines in '96, to improve efficiency and adopt OBD-2, the lineup got displacement bumps, including the M3 with the 3.2l S52B32US. Horsepower figures didn't change, but torque improved.
But again, U.S. buyers could only look enviously at the rest of the world, where the S50B30 evolved into the S50B32, now with double-VANOS on intake and exhaust, and 321 bhp, making the gap even larger than it was before.
It wasn't until the E46 M3, and small run of late M coupes did the U.S. get engine parity again, with the S54B32, giving 333 bhp is American trim.
Probably just as well, because the more complex and highly-tuned "Euro" engines also had higher maintenance requirements, like manual valve adjustments.
