BMW Castrol "TWS" 10w60

[dparm]

TWS is actually not as thick at startup as you might think. Its MRV numbers are very impressive, and the VI is around 170.

 

[CATERHAM]

What are it's MRV @ -30C spec'? I know it's CCS @ -25C spec' is 4,879cP. Of course at less cold temp's how heavy the oil is is quite apparent. It's KV40 spec' is still 168cSt vs 75cSt for M1 0W-40 vs 32cSt for Sustina 0W-20. A dino 15W-40 is about 115cSt and is still lighter a temp's well below freezing so it is all relative. The shear stable RL 5W-50 has a KV40 of 130cSt, a 186 VI and HTHSV of 5.0cP. This oil will be lighter on start-up at all temp's and without a doubt will retain a higher HTHSV rating vs TWS after TWS has finished shearing in service. I'm not suggesting RL 5W-50 as an alternative to TWS, (actually I think it is still too heavy) I'm just using it for comparative purposes. IMO the main reason BMW spec's TWS is to deal with high oil consumption when driving constantly at very high autobahn speeds with high rev's and high oil temp's. From a pure lubrication perspective I don't believe the M series engines need an oil that heavy. If your oil temp's don't stray much above the normal 90C-95C then I can't see an issue running an oil like M1 0W-40.

 

[Leonardo629]

caterham, that's why it's baffling to me that all the new 4.4L twin turbo engines in the M5/M6/X5/X6 calls for BMW 5W30! M1 0W40 is on the approved list as well as 4 other pages of xW30 and xW40 "european formula" oil. I bet the new 3.3L tri-turbo that's going to be in the next M3/M4 will also call for the same grade oil, and I can't imagine a turbo M motor run much cooler than say my S65 V8.

 

[MBS500]

My buddy's 335 twin turbo calls for 5w30 and 5w40 LL-01. I would put m1 Ow-40 there, but he has m1 5w-30 there now, he will survive,but hope he will hear my advice next time.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629

caterham, that's why it's baffling to me that all the new 4.4L twin turbo engines in the M5/M6/X5/X6 calls for BMW 5W30! M1 0W40 is on the approved list as well as 4 other pages of xW30 and xW40 "european formula" oil. I bet the new 3.3L tri-turbo that's going to be in the next M3/M4 will also call for the same grade oil, and I can't imagine a turbo M motor run much cooler than say my S65 V8.

I've wondered the same thing myself as the existing twin turbo engines can get the oil quite hot even driven on the street, but from what I understand they are not high rev'ing engines so they mat not have the same oil consumption issue when driven very fast. Keep in mind the FF on M series engine for which TWS is spec'd is only a 30wt oil and the rev' limit while new during break-in is only 5,500 rpm.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629

caterham, that's why it's baffling to me that all the new 4.4L twin turbo engines in the M5/M6/X5/X6 calls for BMW 5W30! M1 0W40 is on the approved list as well as 4 other pages of xW30 and xW40 "european formula" oil. I bet the new 3.3L tri-turbo that's going to be in the next M3/M4 will also call for the same grade oil, and I can't imagine a turbo M motor run much cooler than say my S65 V8.

I've wondered the same thing myself as the existing twin turbo engines can get the oil quite hot even driven on the street, but from what I understand they are not high rev'ing engines so they mat not have the same oil consumption issue when driven very fast. Keep in mind the FF on M series engine for which TWS is spec'd is only a 30wt oil and the rev' limit while new during break-in is only 5,500 rpm.

FWIW..apparently the new M5's are consuming a lot of oil.

 

[m6pwr]

Just a thought: Is it possible that BMW deliberately runs the n54/n55 twin turbo direct injected engines so hot (250 F) as a way to keep fuel dilution in check?

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

FWIW..apparently the new M5's are consuming a lot of oil.

I wonder if they'll revise those to run on the 10w60 as well. That "heavy" 5w30 might not be up to the task.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: m6pwr

Just a thought: Is it possible that BMW deliberately runs the n54/n55 twin turbo direct injected engines so hot (250 F) as a way to keep fuel dilution in check?

Coolant temps or oil temps? Oil temps that hot are not harmful at all to most modern oils. And they certainly don't need to be that hot for fuel dilution.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Originally Posted By: m6pwr

Just a thought: Is it possible that BMW deliberately runs the n54/n55 twin turbo direct injected engines so hot (250 F) as a way to keep fuel dilution in check?

Coolant temps or oil temps? Oil temps that hot are not harmful at all to most modern oils. And they certainly don't need to be that hot for fuel dilution.

We're talking about oil temp's, and the justification for heavier oil grades. Also I think m6pwr was half joking when he alluded that high oil temp's would assist is nipping fuel dilution in the bud, which it certainly would.

 

[ammolab]

As the M Coupes with the S54 did not get the bearing recall of the M 3 I already paid for a set of rod bearings @ 60,000 miles. Would an oil other than TWS be a better option for this new set of bearings? What do you think about ENOS 0W-50?

 

[m6pwr]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Originally Posted By: m6pwr

Just a thought: Is it possible that BMW deliberately runs the n54/n55 twin turbo direct injected engines so hot (250 F) as a way to keep fuel dilution in check?

Coolant temps or oil temps? Oil temps that hot are not harmful at all to most modern oils. And they certainly don't need to be that hot for fuel dilution.

We're talking about oil temp's, and the justification for heavier oil grades. Also I think m6pwr was half joking when he alluded that high oil temp's would assist is nipping fuel dilution in the bud, which it certainly would.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant oil temps which typically run close to 250 F, particularly in the n54 (2007-2011). And as I understand it, fuel dilution goes hand in hand with most direct injection motors.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: dparm

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

FWIW..apparently the new M5's are consuming a lot of oil.

I wonder if they'll revise those to run on the 10w60 as well. That "heavy" 5w30 might not be up to the task.

Ya. I wonder if it's break in related.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: ammolab

As the M Coupes with the S54 did not get the bearing recall of the M 3 I already paid for a set of rod bearings @ 60,000 miles. Would an oil other than TWS be a better option for this new set of bearings? What do you think about ENOS 0W-50?

Eneos 0W-50 is not much heavier than M1 0W-40; definitely not a 50wt oil; Sustina 0W-50 certainly isn't.

 

[Shannow]

What ???

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: m6pwr

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Originally Posted By: m6pwr

Just a thought: Is it possible that BMW deliberately runs the n54/n55 twin turbo direct injected engines so hot (250 F) as a way to keep fuel dilution in check?

Coolant temps or oil temps? Oil temps that hot are not harmful at all to most modern oils. And they certainly don't need to be that hot for fuel dilution.

We're talking about oil temp's, and the justification for heavier oil grades. Also I think m6pwr was half joking when he alluded that high oil temp's would assist is nipping fuel dilution in the bud, which it certainly would.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant oil temps which typically run close to 250 F, particularly in the n54 (2007-2011). And as I understand it, fuel dilution goes hand in hand with most direct injection motors.

Thanks, I missed those critical details. But fuel dilution appears in many non DI cars as well. My car is factory specified for a 3k mile OCI with synthetic oil! Strictly due to aggressive tune that causes fuel dilution, even with very high oil temps.