BMW 230i (B46) oil

[The Lube Guy]

Does anyone have an idea of the HTHS of the 0W20?

2.6~2.7

 

[edyvw]

Did they finally switch to a Magnesium/Calcium based DI package?

No. The LSPI issue is an engineering issue, not an oil issue.
B46 is not made by Hyundai/KIA.

 

[chris719]

No. The LSPI issue is an engineering issue, not an oil issue.
B46 is not made by Hyundai/KIA.

Still makes me feel better to have a lower calcium package, even if they aren’t known for LSPI. You’re right though. That oil also has no moly which makes me feel sad .

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Well, he wants 0W-30, and they're both great choices.

Otherwise it's Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-30 which isn't bad, but it's made with an ancient add pack. - LL01

Or

Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 - LL04

PP Euro L 5W-30 - LL04

BMW periodically revises all of their active approvals and most recently occurred in 2022-23. Anyways LL01 is still used in many markets especially those which do not require ULSG/ULSD.

 

[The Lube Guy]

BMW periodically revises all of their active approvals and most recently occurred in 2022-23. Anyways LL01 is still used in many markets especially those which do not require ULSG/ULSD.

Understandable, however, Mobil recently reformulated ESP 0W-30 and ESP 5W-30. The 5W-30 has LL04, while 0W-30 doesn't. That could be a matter of "we didn't get around to it" for Mobil, or maybe they didn't want to get it for 0W-30. I don't know. Given the other OEM approvals that ESP 0W-30 carries (VW504, Porsche C30, MB 229.52), and being an ACEA C3 oil (HTHS 3.5+), I don't see an issue with the OP using this excellent motor oil in their application. SAPS is around 0.6% (after the reformulation).

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Understandable, however, Mobil recently reformulated ESP 0W-30 and ESP 5W-30. The 5W-30 has LL04, while 0W-30 doesn't. That could be a matter of "we didn't get around to it" for Mobil, or maybe they didn't want to get it for 0W-30. I don't know. Given the other OEM approvals that ESP 0W-30 carries (VW504, Porsche C30, MB 229.52), and being an ACEA C3 oil (HTHS 3.5+), I don't see an issue with the OP using this excellent motor oil in their application. SAPS is around 0.6% (after the reformulation).

Since Pennzoil is the same way I think it has something to do with the LL04 approval which makes it more difficult to blend as 0w-x vs 5w-x. In fact I don't think there are any 0w-30/40 LL04 oils.

ACEA C3 Pennzoil Euro L 5w30 has LL04 and and the ACEA C3 Euro LX 0w30 does not.

 

[edyvw]

Since Pennzoil is the same way I think it has something to do with the LL04 approval which makes it more difficult to blend as 0w-x vs 5w-x. In fact I don't think there are any 0w-30/40 LL04 oils.

ACEA C3 Pennzoil Euro L 5w30 has LL04 and and the ACEA C3 Euro LX 0w30 does not.

Motul X-Clean 0W30 EFE that is revised for this year is LL04.

 

[edyvw]

Understandable, however, Mobil recently reformulated ESP 0W-30 and ESP 5W-30. The 5W-30 has LL04, while 0W-30 doesn't. That could be a matter of "we didn't get around to it" for Mobil, or maybe they didn't want to get it for 0W-30. I don't know. Given the other OEM approvals that ESP 0W-30 carries (VW504, Porsche C30, MB 229.52), and being an ACEA C3 oil (HTHS 3.5+), I don't see an issue with the OP using this excellent motor oil in their application. SAPS is around 0.6% (after the reformulation).

He is under warranty. I don’t see problem using Mobil1 0W30, but I wouldn’t as it doesn’t have any BMW approval.
LL04 was also updated and now 0W30 or 0W40 oils can be approved. Mobil1 is VERY punctual with approvals. If it doesn’t have, it is bcs. it cannot be approved for some reason (my money is on oxidation).

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Motul X-Clean 0W30 EFE that is revised for this year is LL04.

There you go yet not 229.51. Makes you wonder why these decisions are made.

 

[GJM120]

If I had that 230 and with God given manual, it would only get oil with min HTHS of 3.5.

Really loving the MT. I think 2021 was the last year for MT in a non-M lite or full M.

 

[edyvw]

There you go yet not 229.51. Makes you wonder why these decisions are made.

229.52:

MERCEDES has developed MB 229.52 standard for all “BlueTEC” Diesel engines fitted with SCR (Selective Catalyst Reduction) allowing NOx treatment through the use of AdBlue® additive or so-called “Diesel Exhaust Fluid”. MB 229.52 specification is fully backward compatible with MB 229.51 and MB 229.31 specifications for all Mercedes Diesel engines with or without DPF and some Gasoline engines. MB 229.52 standard also requires improved cold flow properties to reduce hydrodynamic friction of the oil, in order to obtain fuel economy especially when the oil is cold. This extra requirement for cold flow properties allows excellent oil flow at start up, faster oil pressure build up, faster revs raisings and faster operating temperature reach.

 

[edyvw]

Really loving the MT. I think 2021 was the last year for MT in a non-M lite or full M.

I did not follow exactly when they discontinued, but F series 2 will be my next manual after I leave this one for my kids.

 

[GJM120]

Am I correct in interpreting all of the comments that a 0W-40 with LL01 or 04 isn't right for this engine? (after wtty lapses).

 

[edyvw]

Am I correct in interpreting all of the comments that a 0W-40 with LL01 or 04 isn't right for this engine? (after wtty lapses).

It is right. But BMW wants you to use FE oils so they can meet CAFE requirements set by EPA.

 

[GJM120]

Maybe my question wasn't clear, are you saying no to using a 0W40 or even a 5W40 when out of wtty?

 

[edyvw]

Maybe my question wasn't clear, are you saying no to using a 0W40 or even a 5W40 when out of wtty?

No, I say absolutely use it.
BMW approvals are based on HTHS, not grade (you can find numerous discussions what is HTHS).
HTHS can be sometimes higher in W30 oils than W40. So, approvals is what you want, not grade pers se. If you do not track car, I would stick to W30 oils with LL01 or LL04 approval. LL01 is Full-SAPS oil, LL04 is low/Mid-SAPS. If you want oil with similar additives as LL17FE, go LL04 like that Motul I mentioned. It is 0W30, and it is approved.
If you want LL01, I would go that Castrol Edge.

 

[The Lube Guy]

No. The LSPI issue is an engineering issue, not an oil issue.
B46 is not made by Hyundai/KIA.

LSPI wasn't the reason that I asked. Switching to a Mg/Ca DI package would indicate that they've updated their formulation. Pretty much everyone else has updated their full SAPS oils, and Castrol is perfectly capable of doing so as well. That said, Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-30 is LL01 and LL01 FE approved, so maybe they've updated their formulation; they just didn't want to give up the larger amount of Ca.

Which makes sense, because Ca is also a friction reducer, while Mg is not. If you lower Ca, you have to replace it with something else, and then you run into more complications as you'll have to conduct a heck of a lot more testing, validation, etc.

He is under warranty. I don’t see problem using Mobil1 0W30, but I wouldn’t as it doesn’t have any BMW approval.
LL04 was also updated and now 0W30 or 0W40 oils can be approved. Mobil1 is VERY punctual with approvals. If it doesn’t have, it is bcs. it cannot be approved for some reason (my money is on oxidation).

No, it's not oxidation this time around, as Mobil is following the same template with its ESP as with their Triple Action branded blends. They no longer use POE, which contributed to their not meeting the required oxidation targets.

As @BMWTurboDzl pointed out, PP Euro L 5W-30 carries BMW LL04, while LX 0W-30 doesn't. That is because these two motor oils use very different DI packages. I believe that to be the case with Mobil's ESP 0W-30 vs. 5W-30 as well.

You're right, and I missed that. If warranty is a concern, then use what is recommended.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Now it makes sense: Castrol updated the blend. They made the oil a bit thinner, while maintaining minimum HTHS - most likely scenario. That's why it can now be used in BMW LL01 FE applications. However, I doubt it is as "stout" as the previous iteration that was thicker and had a ridiculously low pour point of -60C.

 

[Eugenius]

It is right. But BMW wants you to use FE oils so they can meet CAFE requirements set by EPA.

in Europe the same, if you go to the german shell, only oil in the oil selector for B48 is LL17FE+

 

[edyvw]

LSPI wasn't the reason that I asked. Switching to a Mg/Ca DI package would indicate that they've updated their formulation. Pretty much everyone else has updated their full SAPS oils, and Castrol is perfectly capable of doing so as well. That said, Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-30 is LL01 and LL01 FE approved, so maybe they've updated their formulation; they just didn't want to give up the larger amount of Ca.

Which makes sense, because Ca is also a friction reducer, while Mg is not. If you lower Ca, you have to replace it with something else, and then you run into more complications as you'll have to conduct a heck of a lot more testing, validation, etc.


No, it's not oxidation this time around, as Mobil is following the same template with its ESP as with their Triple Action branded blends. They no longer use POE, which contributed to their not meeting the required oxidation targets.

As @BMWTurboDzl pointed out, PP Euro L 5W-30 carries BMW LL04, while LX 0W-30 doesn't. That is because these two motor oils use very different DI packages. I believe that to be the case with Mobil's ESP 0W-30 vs. 5W-30 as well.

You're right, and I missed that. If warranty is a concern, then use what is recommended.

I don’t get why they need to reduce Ca? They have oils that are SP. What makes it “better” if it is reduced? Castrol decided to offer this oil, and not sure how is that bad?
My money is still on M1 oxidation levels. BMW has strictest oxidation requirements. Just because there is no POE, doesn’t mean it has oxidation within BMW limits.
TheBMW TPT LL01FE is blended by Castrol and it is SP.
The reason why LX is not approved is that it wasn’t submitted for new updated LL04-22.