Blew a Filter this morning

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Anyway what I'm getting at is that those air cooled engines don't need real thick oil even in Summer in AZ.

But a Beetle has better cooling, and much less weight than a camper-bus. So I get thick outside of winter...just to soon.

 

[river_rat]

I like NAPA Gold filters a lot, but I am now less enthusiastic than ever about the new "rubber" bypass on the Silver/ProSelect. It gets stiff when cold. Although I have no way of knowing if that contributed to the blowout.
I put another ProSelect on there because I had one, but a different number (and old stash) with a metal spring bypass.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Huh...who would've guessed...

Not I.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mcshooter
my neighbors motorcraft filter on his 2003 v8 mustang split completely open and cost him his engine. he had to get a new short block.


What weight of oil was he running?

Also, if the pressure relief on the Modular sticks (which has happened, New York Taxi stuff) it makes an absolutely retarded amount of oil pressure. Any filter aside from something like a K&N with its insane pressure rating would likely fail.

 

[Cristobal]

I knew an old mechanic who once said: "Never use a rebuilt oil pump. I put once of those (censored) (censored)s on a 1968 Cadillac. I started the (censored) engine and (censored) oil flew all over the (censored) place."

 

[river_rat]

Yeah, I'm guessing the regulator got stuck and blew his filter.

 

[VWguy]

River Rat, VWguy here, why are you using a 20w50 oil? The motor must be damaged or worn out! You are correct about the 10psi per 1000rpm rule, but if you are only getting 22psi at that rpm you listed you have an internal problem such as worn main/rod bearings, excessive clearances, and/or a spread center main web on the case or its cracked there. And that oil can only get so hot and thin out.
What size oil pump are you using? Stock is 21mm or 26mm. Some people will use a 30mm oil pump but almost never on a properly built engine. Race engines use these and I have used them on engines that were worn out and tried to restore oil pressure when warm.
The Magnesium case does not expand and open up as you have stated. If it does, there is a problem.
I have a daily driver '74 bug with a case that probably has the same issues you have as the previous owner overheated it and did not repair it. I have installed the Bugpack oil filter return in the bore of the relief piston and spring. I run Chevron 20w-50 oil and when it has hit a low of 35-40 degrees here in LA, my Purolator L39001 has hung in there even though my vdo o.p. guage is pegged for at least 10 mins off idle.
Went to Peb Boys a bit ago to check out the AC Delco PF13 filter you are useing. It sure is a tiny filter! And at $6 I think you could do better. My daily driver bus is a 1600, with a 1 1/2 qt sump, a Purolator L39001 full flow filter and a Baldwin B164 by-pass oil filter for a total cappacity of 7 quarts. I have not had a single problem with this setup.
I am wondering, the filter you are useing is designed for the late type 4 bus which has the relief in the mount such as the GM's do. Us VW people use the Ford style of filter, such as the Fram PH8A filter which has its bypass within the filter. Am I correct?
Hope this helps, Bill

 

[VWguy]

Decades ago, I built my first non-stock VW engine. It was an 1835cc. Had a DDS (Deano Dyno Soar) 32mm oil pump installed and the sand buggy guys at the dealer said "ya gotta use Valvoline 50wt Racing Oil." It was a sunday afternoon and I had the key to the service dept and parts dept, but did not have a Fram HP1 filter, so I installed a Rabbit oil filter from our parts dept. Upon starting it up to break-in the Sig Erson cam, the massive oil pressure coupled with the 50wt oil blew the gasket out and within 10 seconds, I had oil everywhere! What a mess. Even back then, I did not realize the correlation with huge pumps, thick oils, and moderate clearances. I thought it had to be the oil filter and walked down to the speed shop and coughed up the $ for a couple of HP1's. Wasn't til I started reading up on this site that I did not need all that pump and thick oil. Bill

 

[VWguy]

And you are correct. Gene Berg Ent does sell a oil pump cover that incorporates a by-pass setup specifically to protect the oil filter on hi oil pressure start ups and/or surges.
One thing I believe Gene was famous for was taking the conservative approach. Small oil pump, moderate oil viscosity, and the use of the Ford style oil filter. Why try an re-invent the wheel? Bill

 

[river_rat]

Bill, Yeah I am (was) running 20W-50 and a stock 26 mm pump. The filter I used was for a late Bay, but I always use one with a bypass, i.e., the filter fits other applications such as Chrysler. I do not have the built-in bypass in the filter mount is why. Currently running a Mahle OC47 with bypass, and 10W-40.
The engine was always a little sloppy on bearing clearance since the rebuild, due to mediocre parts. The case was a new AS41 from CB performance at the time as the old one was cracked behind the flywheel by #3 jug. It has loosened up over the last 35K miles, especially since I put the wrong ol pump in intitially, and the cam gear ate off some of the housing which caused some debris to score up the main bearings...no filter at the time to help on that. Thanks for the input.

 

[VWguy]

Well, with spring here maybe its time to pull that engine down to the crank and install a set of fresh main, rod, and cam bearings. And try using Plastiguage to determine your clearances. I believe JayCee is the only one offering an oil filter mount that incorporates a relief. The Berg setup has the relief in the oil pump cover. You can get a lot of free info off of the Gene Berg web site, as nearly all his products have a small tutorial to support its need and why they offer that product. Look into his oil temp dipstick as an inexpensive device to see if your getting to hot. While todays oils can handle a lot of heat, I'd rather keep the air-cooled parts I have at a reasonable level. Decent parts have literally sky rocketed in price.
Since your on this site, obviously you are aware of the correct aditive package for flat tappet cams. Personally, I'm a fan of the Chevron line of products, out here in Calif, especially the Delo line for diesels. But now using Shell Rotella in the bus engine because Web Cams agreed it was ok to use. The bug, with the oil pressure problems, I want to see how the Chevron Delo 40wt will work in it when it warms up this summer.

 

[river_rat]

I just run Castrol GTX, (or Havoline) API SM after break-in. The spring pressure is pretty light. The cam and lifters look brand new and a buddy of mine has 200K miles (he drives a lot) on nothing but SM oil ever (since last rebuild) on his late Bay T-4, so I am good unless I go to a performance valve train.

I think I'll wait for more time and money before tearing down. Plus I want to do some camping with it and don't need it apart right now. She'll run.

What does you OP run in your Bug and Bus?

 

[VWguy]

Well, the bus does not have an oil pressure guage. When I initially started it up out of the vehicle on 3 milk crates, all i had was a screw in oil pressure guage. And I do not recall what the pressures were. The "worn out" bug engine is a different story. I installed a VDO OP guage when I realized it had a problem. With either a 10w30 or 15w40 oil in it, the oil lite would come on at idle after a "spirited" drive on the freeway. After the guage was installed I realized how bad this lower end is. When the oil temp got to approx 220 degrees, the oil pressure was only about 20psi at 3500rpm on the freeway. I propped open the deck lid and the oil temp would drop to about 205-210 degrees and the oil pressure would be about 22psi. I eventually began using Chevrons 20w-50 conventional oil and that has at least kept the oil lite off at idle. I have even installed the Bugpack oil return adaptor in the bore that the piston/spring used to reside in, totally removeing the protection for the oil cooler. To this date, no problems and the oil temp has been reduced a few degrees as now with 4 quarts and the oil circulating outside the engine, the oil temp was reduced a small amount. I fully realize that that these things are "band-aids" to this ailing engine, but it runs too good to just tear it down now. During the summer, I plan on trying the Chevron Delo 40 wt oil in this engine and see if the straight weight oil stays thicker when warm. Bill

 

[river_rat]

The straight 40 will prolly stay a little thicker than XW-40, no guarantee, but why not stick to 20W-50? It will flow a bit better at start-up.

 

[VWguy]

Morning. Just looking to try different things and look for any noticeable change. Plus I picked up a few gallons of Chevron's Delo 4oo, 40wt cheap. I haven't checked but think the cst is similar at operateing temp for the 20w-50 and the straight weight 40.
Did you know that Castrol put out a memo, or bulletin/circular basically saying there GTX oil was not recommended for older cars with flat tappet cams? Not sure if this was corporate hype to push their new Syntec for Classic Cars.
And finally, on the subject of your filter pushing the seal out. When I worked for VW, the diesel Rabbits were starting to arrive back to the dealer but on a tow truck. Seems the oil filter seal was getting pushed out and damaging some engines. The dealers then were useing the same 20w-50 oil as used in the gas cars. VW published a bulletin to torque the oil filter to 18 lb/ft. We never had an issue after that.

 

[river_rat]

Prolly covering their behinds for the Detroit iron crowd. No one on any of the air-cooled VW forums seems to be able to name a case of failure with SM oil, due to SM oil. At least I've tried and I can't find any.

I think the filters bulging on my case was my clue that insufficent filter torque was not the real issue, but that's interesting.