Black powdery substance in my engine oil

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nZone

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Full disclosure: My car is 2011 Acura MDX, and it is experiencing excessive oil consumption. Acura is kind of half-acknowledge the problem.

These what've done in order...

1. I've done engine flush with BG. 109 EPR.
2. Used QSUD 5W30 instead of OEM 5W20. I get 1Qt/2000mi.
3. Used Techron Concentrated Plus, improved mpg from 13.5 to 16+.
4. Used GC 0W40 to try to improve oil consumption, but the viscosity was too thick, car didn't like it. I drained it with 100mi (I know...a $25 waste).
5. Drained and refilled with PPPP 5W20, retained oil filter, plus 1/2 qt from GC 0W40. A little over filled.
6. The car burned off the overfilled in just 200 miles. I drained it (another $25 waste).
7. Refilled with 75% PUPPP 5W30 25% PUPPP 0W40, and replaced oil filter (4.5 qts).
8. The problem: the oil dipstick is showing overfilled! I noticed also a black substance/residue at the bottom of the dipstick when I pulled out.
9. The good news is that the car doesn't seem to consume oil yet...the tailpipes have no soots stain. Typically black soots stain.

It seems like 1/2 qt foreign substance is filled up in oil pan reservoir. The car takes 4.5 qts with oil filter.
Should I drain the fresh oil?
 
nzone
When did this start at what mileage? Also did you bring it in for service for this problem while under any warranty??
This is not so uncommon with a number of Honda vehicles.
There has been a class action investigation..And i know Honda settled a class action Lawsuit for this type of oil burning problem..
Do you have an extended warranty that you purchased or one that the manufacturer was forced to extend because they ARE aware of this?
This is not valve seals this is rings many of them were installed wrong it is well known in the engine world and every stealer knows this also. Stop adding things to your oil it won't fix a mechanical problem like that.
 
HerrStig, I don't know that yet. Acura acknowledged there's oil consumption issue for 2010-13 model year, but doesn't know the root cause. They seemed to think it's stuck rings, but some people who got short block replaced still get excessive oil consumption. I don't want to randomly repair anything mechanical, yet!

Right now I just want to experiment oil brand...just to reduce oil consumption, not fixing the problem. 1qt/3000mi I will be happy as clam. When Acura knows the real root caused, I'll fix it. But at the moment, I see black residue in the bottom of the oil pan, it wasn't like this before.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
nzone
When did this start at what mileage? Also did you bring it in for service for this problem while under any warranty??
This is not so uncommon with a number of Honda vehicles.
There has been a class action investigation..And i know Honda settled a class action Lawsuit for this type of oil burning problem..
Do you have an extended warranty that you purchased or one that the manufacturer was forced to extend because they ARE aware of this?
This is not valve seals this is rings many of them were installed wrong it is well known in the engine world and every stealer knows this also. Stop adding things to your oil it won't fix a mechanical problem like that.


Crazyoildude, It started around 65K miles when I started using PUPPP 5W20. The first 2500mi, there was no consumption but the next 500mi the car consumed about 3/4 qt. I didn't think of it so I just topped off. Then it got progressively worst at 75K where I get 1qt/1200mi. I always changed my oil at 5K mi interval. Before PUPPP, I used PUP and I topped off about 1/4 qt in 5K mi. The warranty is already expired, from here on it's all on me. QSUD 5W30 seemed to improve the oil consumption.

The black substance/residue at the bottom of the dipstick just started on this last oil changed. The car takes 4.5 qts with oil filter. But this time, I filled the same 4.5 qts, it shows overfilled. It seems like 1/2 qt too much...maybe from the black stuffs?
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
nzone
When did this start at what mileage? Also did you bring it in for service for this problem while under any warranty??
This is not so uncommon with a number of Honda vehicles.
There has been a class action investigation..And i know Honda settled a class action Lawsuit for this type of oil burning problem..
Do you have an extended warranty that you purchased or one that the manufacturer was forced to extend because they ARE aware of this?
This is not valve seals this is rings many of them were installed wrong it is well known in the engine world and every stealer knows this also. Stop adding things to your oil it won't fix a mechanical problem like that.
I said, "such as valve seals".
 
I wouldn't mess around with different weights and just use the OEM 5W-20 blend, then document, document, document...

There probably is an internal technical bulletin on the problem and I'd ask them to do something under the warranty...
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
How many miles on the car in total this may not be totally on your dime.


It's about 82,000 now. It's 12000mi past the powertrain warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
I wouldn't mess around with different weights and just use the OEM 5W-20 blend, then document, document, document...

There probably is an internal technical bulletin on the problem and I'd ask them to do something under the warranty...


There is an internal technical bulletin informing dealers to remove the pistons, check the rings, and if they are stucked, replace the rings or the pistons. The problem is people who had the short block replaced still get excessive oil consumption. Pretty Acura is shooting in the dark, and try to minimize costs going this route.

The problem is, I documented the oil change but I didn't save the receipts. It's worthless to them as proof.

It's out of warranty so they can do oil consumption test paid for by me. If proved to be excessive oil consumption, I would try to convince Acura for "goodwill", but I am going uphill battle. I bought this car from non-Acura dealer pre-owned. The dealer will not go to battle for me. Perhaps, I could try to see the ends result.
 
Originally Posted By: nZone
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
I wouldn't mess around with different weights and just use the OEM 5W-20 blend, then document, document, document...

There probably is an internal technical bulletin on the problem and I'd ask them to do something under the warranty...


There is an internal technical bulletin informing dealers to remove the pistons, check the rings, and if they are stucked, replace the rings or the pistons. The problem is people who had the short block replaced still get excessive oil consumption. Pretty Acura is shooting in the dark, and try to minimize costs going this route.

The problem is, I documented the oil change but I didn't save the receipts. It's worthless to them as proof.

It's out of warranty so they can do oil consumption test paid for by me. If proved to be excessive oil consumption, I would try to convince Acura for "goodwill", but I am going uphill battle. I bought this car from non-Acura dealer pre-owned. The dealer will not go to battle for me. Perhaps, I could try to see the ends result.


I would bury Acura on the web every chance I get. Of course, they don't sell many anyways because it's like you're paying more for what seems like an inferior Honda at this point. I'm sure Acura USA is well aware why they have tumble weeds rolling around their lots, the one in Buffalo is a joke...
 
1qt every 2000 miles isn't bad. Stick with a 5w-30. I found that PYB or Mobil Super 5000 5w-30 burned off a little slower than QSUD in my oil burner. Check/replace the PCV valve, this made a significant difference for me. Extend the OCI a little/lot since you are replenishing the oil additives on a regular basis. Good luck!
 
Originally Posted By: slug_bug
1qt every 2000 miles isn't bad. Stick with a 5w-30. I found that PYB or Mobil Super 5000 5w-30 burned off a little slower than QSUD in my oil burner. Check/replace the PCV valve, this made a significant difference for me. Extend the OCI a little/lot since you are replenishing the oil additives on a regular basis. Good luck!


I replaced the PCV valve in August. At the time of the replacement, the PCV tube was coated with brownish oil stain. I double checked again last weekend to see whether the new PCV was working, I pulled the PCV tube, it was clean and no brownish oil stain. The new PCV is functioning properly and no more blow-by. If can get 1qt/3000mi I will be happy. My short trip to work (4mi one-way) compounds the problem. My new home brewed 75% 5W30 PUPPP + 25% 0-W40 PUPPP seems positive. I typically gets the soots after new oil changed, but there's no black residue at the tailpipes so far.
 
Take the car in to an Acura dealer for an oil change. Tell them it's using oil and see what they say. I think dealers get paid by Acura for the warranty work they do. Best to let dealers do all oil changes thru the end of powertrain warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: nZone


It's out of warranty so they can do oil consumption test paid for by me. If proved to be excessive oil consumption, I would try to convince Acura for "goodwill", but I am going uphill battle. I bought this car from non-Acura dealer pre-owned. The dealer will not go to battle for me. Perhaps, I could try to see the ends result.


It sounds to me like the previous owner neglected the car and you are paying the price. I would use a good cleaning oil like PYB at short intervals and keep it topped up. Make sure to get it good and hot several times a week and all that black stuff should burn off eventually.
 
You may have stuck rings, or you may have a worn engine...

So you have done a compression test and blow-down test? What are the readings?

No black soot at the tailpipe is meaningless. That just means your CATs are working. The oil is turning to ash in the CATs and they will plug up eventually ... If you don't have to do SMOG checks in your area, you can gut the CATs when that happens and cruise on... If you have SMOG checks, you'll have to do new CATs ...

If you don't want to drop the pan to investigate the black stuff, you will have to go after it some other way. Given what you are describing, I'd say you can try some chemical treatments to see if they help before you go to mechanical repairs. It's not going to be much trouble compared to dropping the pan ...

I'd pull the plugs on Friday and let it sit over a weekend with a big shot of Break-Free carbon gun solvent in each cylinder. By a big shot I don't mean 2 fluid ounces, I mean using a spray can, maybe a thimble full in each cylinder. Put the plugs back in and let it sit. Sunday fire it up and drive it for 10 miles. Change the oil/filter. SuperTech 5W-30 is fine for what we are doing.

Next add a full can of Kreen (Kano Labs) and drive it for 3K. Change oil/filter again and add another can of Kreen. If it's stuck rings in 6K with these treatments it'll either be unstuck or it's hopeless, and will have to be done with a ring replacement.

If the oil consumption stops or diminishes, you know what to do. Run SuperTech syn 5W-30 and 1/4 can of Kreen each change from here on out. If it did not work, your out $100 for the trials and you have to have the engine fixed ...
 
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: nZone


It's out of warranty so they can do oil consumption test paid for by me. If proved to be excessive oil consumption, I would try to convince Acura for "goodwill", but I am going uphill battle. I bought this car from non-Acura dealer pre-owned. The dealer will not go to battle for me. Perhaps, I could try to see the ends result.


It sounds to me like the previous owner neglected the car and you are paying the price. I would use a good cleaning oil like PYB at short intervals and keep it topped up. Make sure to get it good and hot several times a week and all that black stuff should burn off eventually.


I wouldn't put the blame on the previous owner. There are records of him having OCI done at the dealers on the recommended mileage. There are known problem for J37 engine on TL 2010-14, MDX 2010-13, ZDX 2010-13, and RLX so it's not owner's negligence.
 
BrocLuno,

I didn't have compression or blow-down test done. From my research, some people said sometimes compression is to spec, but the rings are sticking. The engine runs great. There's no loss of power. There's no misfires.


The black stuffs occurred on this last oil change (less than 100mi). It could be PUPPP cleaning detergent is removing something. Although black soot in the tailpipe is not scientific proof, but of all the 5w20 oil that I've used generates a lot of black stuffs at the tailpipes. The QSUD 5W30 generated less and engine consumed less oil. The 75% 5W30 25% 0W40 PUPPP is generating even less. From the history, I would say the engine consumes less or next to nothing oil. I will know the next 2000mi.

Maybe I'll try your methods in there summer. The Break-Free stuffs come is various size, 4oz?
 
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