Black pipe or rigid mount CSST?

[sciphi]

I'm in a bit of a quandary right now. Someewhere along the line in my house, somebody tried to run a gas line for a gas stove. They ran 3/4" TracPipe (yellow jacketed) CSST through the floor, and stuck a valve onto the end without terminating the CSST with a permanent mount! I found out about this when the installers coming out to install my new gas stove yanked up on the CSST to check for a permanent mount and the CSST gas line moved readily.

The installer said they really wanted to see black pipe, as that's a rigid mount. I was able to track down an appropriate floor mount for a gas stove for the existing CSST. If I decided on black pipe, it wouldn't be much in materials since the run is about 4-5 feet. Another part of me says to use the appropriate permanent mount for the existing CSST since it's existing and saves me time re-doing the line. What say you all?

 

[JTK]

Sci, I don't think I've had a proper 'permanent mount' in any of homes I've owned. IIRC, our gas fireplace has the yellow flex going right to it. There's a pipe nipple with a shut-off valve protruding through the floor/basement ceiling.

 

[Stelth]

Six of one...

A CSST floor flange termination would certainly work, but if it's just a couple of cuts of black pipe and an elbow or two, the cost would probably not be much different. If it were me, I'd probably do the CSST floor flange.

 

[Gabe]

Are we talking natural gas or propane?? 7 in wc??

Assuming natural gas: the flex stuff is ok and safe for indoor use only. If you start replacing pipe, you will need to pull your meter and get your lines pressure tested.

I would leave it alone unless you start smelling gas.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
Are we talking natural gas or propane?? 7 in wc??

Assuming natural gas: the flex stuff is ok and safe for indoor use only. If you start replacing pipe, you will need to pull your meter and get your lines pressure tested.

I would leave it alone unless you start smelling gas.



Natural gas.

I can't leave well enough alone, considering that I can't get my new gas stove installed without making it right.

I'll call the town government code enforcement office on Monday to see what they say. Right now I'm leaning toward the rigid fitting, since that would satisfy what the installers want.

CSST is funny stuff. According to the manufacturer literature I've looked at, it can be run directly to fixed appliances. But running it to movable appliances like a stove or dryer needs a rigid mount, and then a flex line after the rigid mount.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: sciphi

CSST is funny stuff. According to the manufacturer literature I've looked at, it can be run directly to fixed appliances. But running it to movable appliances like a stove or dryer needs a rigid mount, and then a flex line after the rigid mount.


Think about it like this. What would happen if your electric receptacle was not mounted firmly in the wall? Tugging and movement from plugging into the receptacle could cause wiring or fixture damage and eventually a hazard. The same applies to a movable appliance gas connection.

The rigid CSST termination should work fine. Your local code people might tell you that you are not allowed to install this stuff. You might be able to circumvent this, but in the case of an insurance claim (house burns down) you might have problems.

I have not used CSST, but it seems that it is similar to PEX, in that you really have to follow all the installation codes to not create serious (potentially fatal) problems.

Your CSST is bonded and grounded, correct??

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: sciphi

CSST is funny stuff. According to the manufacturer literature I've looked at, it can be run directly to fixed appliances. But running it to movable appliances like a stove or dryer needs a rigid mount, and then a flex line after the rigid mount.


Think about it like this. What would happen if your electric receptacle was not mounted firmly in the wall? Tugging and movement from plugging into the receptacle could cause wiring or fixture damage and eventually a hazard. The same applies to a movable appliance gas connection.

The rigid CSST termination should work fine. Your local code people might tell you that you are not allowed to install this stuff. You might be able to circumvent this, but in the case of an insurance claim (house burns down) you might have problems.

I have not used CSST, but it seems that it is similar to PEX, in that you really have to follow all the installation codes to not create serious (potentially fatal) problems.

Your CSST is bonded and grounded, correct??


Good way of thinking about it. And, I'll hew to the local code folks. If they say it's not DIY stuff but that black pipe is, that makes my choice a lot easier.

It's not bonded as of this moment. Bonding will be pretty easy, as there's black pipe a short distance away. Fitting on the fixture, fitting on the black pipe, large-diameter wire between the two, and it's good.

 

[jrustles]

+1 on leaving the TracPipe and adding the fixed mount.


Originally Posted By: sciphi

CSST is funny stuff. According to the manufacturer literature I've looked at, it can be run directly to fixed appliances. But running it to movable appliances like a stove or dryer needs a rigid mount, and then a flex line after the rigid mount.


Yup. Even the Canadian B149 code treats the CSST as black iron. All moveable appliances must be connected via appliance connectors- which is really just CSST with permanent fittings anyway.

 

[expat]

I understand that one of the advantages of CSST is that there can be less joints in the installation = Less chance of a leak.

I'd go with just a Ridgid mount. Reefing on the old black pipe could cause more problems than it solves.

 

[sciphi]

Update: I installed the new rigid flange fitting and new gas valve. That was pretty darned easy. That flange is going nowhere now that it's anchored to the subfloor with 4 long wood screws. Locating the fitting was an exercise in patience, though!

I see the attraction of CSST for faster and less error-prone installation, although selecting the appropriate fitting, appropriate-length installation hardware for fixed fittings, and appropriate striker/protection pieces can be frustrating. Definitely a system for detail-oriented people.

 

[JustinH]

I plumbed a gas dryer for my mother a few years back.

I measured, then bought black gas pipe at home depot.

They put the ends on the pipe for free, and sold me all the elbows that I needed to make the connection.

From the appliance to the black pipe is about a 2 foot yellow jacket flex line.

I feel this is the proper way to do it.

I think the long run of black pipe was like 20 bucks. Seems like a no brainer.

 

[sciphi]

For renovation work, CSST has its place. Many fewer connections to leak, and the fittings make it easy to get a good seal on the first try. It's a labor-saver. Knowing what I know now, I'd buy CSST over black pipe just for the time/labor savings on a major renovation.