black Honda, needs full correction... advice?

[genynnc]

Greetings ladies and gents... I posted this over at autotopia with not much feedback.

Mind you, I'm a hobbyist, not a professional detailer.

I'll try to be short and to the point-

Vehicle:
2002 Honda Accord, black (unsure of color name, look like it has a bit of dark, dark blue flake in stock paint). 146,000 miles. Purchased vehicle in '06 used w/ 62K. Wife's car, daily driver She's hard on it in every aspect (interior, exterior, brakes, you get it...)

Environment: Live in Vancouver, WA. Rain for 8+ months out of the year. Some snow/sleet/ice and usually encounter de-icer on roadways 10+ times a year. Temps in Winter are usually high 20's- low 50's. Summer is very dry and can be dusty, mid 50's lows- 95 highs.

Paint condition:
Hazing, marring, deep scratches, oxidation, swirls present. You name it, it's in the paint. Good news is, no clear coat failure noted. Needs full correction. In the time we have owned the car, I've never had any sort of wheel on the car.

My experience level: I have used a rotary on my truck and another vehicle but never on black paint. The rotary I have is an older Makita (1998, not sure of model #). I understand the rotary could possible make the task 'faster' but I've got time. However, I just purchased a DA for use since I'm not THAT confident in my rotary skills. Mind you, when I used the rotary I didn't burn or necessarily ruin any paint I've been on but I'm sure the clarity isn't what it should have been either.
I've read up on DA operation and watched some videos regarding proper technique. This will be the first time with a DA but I'm confident I can learn a decent technique half way through.

Plan:

Wash, two bucket system.

Clay

Compound (if necessary)

Mild-compound

Polish

Sealant/ Wax

Regarding products/equipment...
I picked up some HD Cut, HD Uno, HD polish and 4 of each Buff and Shine 5.5" pads- organe, green, blue, black, and 2 red for the DA. I ordered the HD products because of their perceived user friendliness, "long" work time, low dusting, and reported results.

My idea is to start with HD Uno and work with it first on a test spot and orange pad then adjust (pad, work time, product amount) from there depending on results.

I'm going try to 'stay off' the A and C pillars with HD Uno due to this is generally a thinner clear/paint area.

I have some NXT on hand for a final step but am interested in Collenites for durability... and will probably purchase some at a later date.


Specific Questions:

What are the experiences of those here, that have corrected Honda paint. I am under the impression that it is pretty soft and multiple stages (compound, light compound, polish, sealant/ wax) are all need to get the clarity and imperfections/ hazing/ holograming out from the previous stages of correction.


My goal is to get the Honda looking better without trying to make this process more difficult than it should be or over analyze it. Or to spend excess money for naught.

Again, I have some general knowledge of paint correction but my prior experience was with poor lighting/pads, so my results were less than what they should have been. I'm fully equipped now with plenty of pads, product, good microfiber towels, etc...

Many thanks for your time.
-Dellinger

 

[Vikas]

You are in the wrong place! You have knowledge, material and tools which 90% of the participants here don't possess. To find plethora of people who are better experts than you means you need to go to detailing forums. You come here when you want to ask which oil to use in your Accord Seriously, apart from handful of participants here such as RickF from Texas and Chris, most of us are rank armatures when it comes to auto detailing.

 

[HyundaiGuy]

I keep my own cars up, and they look great and are easy to sell when it is time to move on. Mine never get anywhere near as bad as you are facing,

That said, if I had the issues you describe, I would be going to a professional. I'd be concerned about not having the right tools and chemicals. Also, I'd be worried about burning though the clear coat with the buffer.

 

[Artem]

Tape out a test panel with masking tape and start with the least aggressive pad / polish and try to achieve the desired correction.

Once you've worked out what works best, do the rest of the car.

 

[maybehabitformin]

Sounds like you already know.A black car you would use a finer pad and polish than you would on a lighter finish. The worst that could happen is you would have to use a good swirl remover if needed and going to a finer pad.I like 3M products but would use anything I had lying around and maybe buy a dark finish swirl remover if needed at the end.Since it has already been worked several times from the sound of it I would wet sand it first thing and go from there.

 

[genynnc]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
You are in the wrong place! You have knowledge, material and tools which 90% of the participants here don't possess. To find plethora of people who are better experts than you means you need to go to detailing forums.


Yeah, I know BUT I already posted at autotopia (where the detailing pros are at) but little-to-no feedback; so I came here.

Originally Posted By: HyundaiGuy
I keep my own cars up, and they look great and are easy to sell when it is time to move on. Mine never get anywhere near as bad as you are facing,

That said, if I had the issues you describe, I would be going to a professional. I'd be concerned about not having the right tools and chemicals. Also, I'd be worried about burning though the clear coat with the buffer.


Well, I used to live in NC, to which the climate wasn't as rainy, cold, and depressing in winter. I used to 'pay' to keep your car looking good because even in winter, there was such thing as sun.

Out here, it's almost, ALMOST no use even washing the darn thing during winter because you would basically need to wash it everyday if it was a daily driver, from Nov.-June.

We just bought a house (used to be in an apt.) so now I can at least store the vehicle inside a garage and keep it somewhat out of the elements. And I now have driveway, in which to keep up the appearance.

And regarding 'burn through' with a rotary, that's certainly a concern due to heat build up but even then, you have to be a total moron to burn through clear.

With a DA the heat component is reduced and so there's a bit more 'safety' in the process.

Originally Posted By: Artem
Tape out a test panel with masking tape and start with the least aggressive pad / polish and try to achieve the desired correction.

Once you've worked out what works best, do the rest of the car.


Yep, got it. That's what I intended.

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: genynnc

Yeah, I know BUT I already posted at autotopia (where the detailing pros are at) but little-to-no feedback; so I came here.


Is it possible nobody bothered to give feedback because it looks like the only feedback you need will be the feedback you get from your eyes while doing the work?

 

[RTexasF]

Which DA polisher did you get? It matters. You are correct that Honda, as a rule, has soft paint. In spite of that, with your description, it appears a full blown compound may be necessary for the first step. The advice to start with the least aggressive method first is excellent. With that in mind I would start with the orange pad and it is likely you will need to do multiple polishing steps with lesser pads to refine the finish.

I have not used HD Uno but from what I have read it seems to respond well to the pad being used. An aggressive pad produces aggressive results. That can be followed by the same product but using a less aggressive pad. Again, I've no experience with this product just quoting what I've read. After many years of searching I settled on Menzerna polishes and have never changed because they work every single time.A little finicky with high humidity, which I live with, but nothing drastic to deal with. If you're using the DA there is no reason to stay clear of the pillars.

NXT, in all honesty, is not a very good product. Initially looks are great, but durability is shameful. I would give it away and go with Collinite #845. After all that work the last thing you want is to watch that hard earned shine fall apart in a few weeks. I bought into the NXT hype but gave it away after the disappointment it provided. Don't waste your time with it.

 

[genynnc]

Originally Posted By: yonyon


Is it possible nobody bothered to give feedback because it looks like the only feedback you need will be the feedback you get from your eyes while doing the work?


Quite possibly...but what would forums (especially detailing forums) be for if this were simply it?

RTexasF: Porter Cable XP. Thanks for the feedback regarding the multiple steps. I'll start with the UNO and orange, depending on results on the worst piece of the paint, which will be my test spot, may got to HD Cut. And yes, NXT is [censored] as far a durability (I've noticed, it's a two wash or 2 week LSP basically)... maybe I'll go ahead and step up to Collinite's and then just use the NXT for summer. Like any other idiot, I've got about 100 bottle's of product and hate having them all. Actually I hate that it's money wasted. Oh well, live and learn.

 

[Vikas]

We like pictures! It would be great if you can take lots of pictures, before, during, after etc.

Now that Rick has responded, you are in good hands.

 

[WhyMe]

if its still going ot be your wifes car, why bother?? she oviously does not love it to have it in that condition. Whne i had my Bmw in the shop to get a hood done i asked the guy how much it would be to fix the bumper scratches. he asked who drove it and i told him my wife. he said don't bother as there will be new rash soon enough.

If you really want to do it, on a black car, i would really let the pro do it. probably cost a couple of hundred, but the outcome should be better. then just keep it shiny afterwards.

 

[RTexasF]

Originally Posted By: genynnc
Originally Posted By: yonyon


Is it possible nobody bothered to give feedback because it looks like the only feedback you need will be the feedback you get from your eyes while doing the work?


Quite possibly...but what would forums (especially detailing forums) be for if this were simply it?

RTexasF: Porter Cable XP. Thanks for the feedback regarding the multiple steps. I'll start with the UNO and orange, depending on results on the worst piece of the paint, which will be my test spot, may got to HD Cut. And yes, NXT is [censored] as far a durability (I've noticed, it's a two wash or 2 week LSP basically)... maybe I'll go ahead and step up to Collinite's and then just use the NXT for summer. Like any other idiot, I've got about 100 bottle's of product and hate having them all. Actually I hate that it's money wasted. Oh well, live and learn.


The Porter Cable XP responds extremely well to a smaller backing plate and 5.5" pads. It's not the strongest of the DA's out there and the smaller plate/pads help it rotate easier and faster which cuts down on the time involved. It will work with the larger 6" pads but it's a bit sluggish and more time will be needed.

 

[genynnc]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
We like pictures! It would be great if you can take lots of pictures, before, during, after etc.
.


You bet. I was planning on before/ during/ after. I'll elaborate below.

Edit: There may be some time lapse from this conversation to the results. I gotta find a weekend to do this, but I'll absolutely follow through with pictures. Give me some time.

Originally Posted By: WhyMe
if its still going ot be your wifes car, why bother?? she oviously does not love it to have it in that condition.

If you really want to do it, on a black car, i would really let the pro do it. probably cost a couple of hundred, but the outcome should be better. then just keep it shiny afterwards.


You know, this isn't bad advice. I agree my wife 'doesn't care' about the effort put into keeping a car clean. However, my interest in doing it myself are 3-fold:

1.) There's some pride on the line, my father-n-law doesn't think I can really get this thing looking decent.

2.) I WANT to learn something/ more about paint correction, doing it is the only way to acquire that knowledge

3.) This will probably be the most 'finicky' of paints I will deal with on my personal cars. It'll be a challenge that's going to present me with a bit of scenarios, of which I should learn quite a bit. My motto is- Aim high, miss low.

RTexasF: yeah, I've got the 5" b&s backing plate w/ 5.5" pads. Thanks again for the feedback.

Edit: RTexas F:- is there any flash light, rigged up cheap light that I can substitute for a sun gun? Just wondering...probably not.

 

[WhyMe]

even with the right pad and aggressive compound, a DA polisher will not do as well as a rotary, especially on a badly neglected vehicle. I have both and tried both.

The DA is good for light oxidation and polishing. The rotary will take it off fast.

Watch the vids on youtube and you will notice that the real tough jobs are done on a rotary.

 

[genynnc]

Originally Posted By: WhyMe
even with the right pad and aggressive compound, a DA polisher will not do as well as a rotary, especially on a badly neglected vehicle. I have both and tried both.

The DA is good for light oxidation and polishing. The rotary will take it off fast.

Watch the vids on youtube and you will notice that the real tough jobs are done on a rotary.


In my gut, I agree. I haven't tried the DA yet... 'We' will see how it turns out. I'll post the pictures. If I'm not getting the results from the DA, I've got the Makita rotary on the shelf and then go at it again and post some follow ups of the difference between rotary and DA.

 

[Vikas]

Since you are determined to jump with both feet, this is not applicable to you. But if I were in your shoes, I would have selected a small representative portion of the vehicle and would have already tried the manual method i.e. foam applicator, your chemicals and lots of elbow grease and contrasted the results.

 

[RTexasF]

Quote:
Edit: RTexas F:- is there any flash light, rigged up cheap light that I can substitute for a sun gun? Just wondering...probably not.


I went with a twin 500 watt halogen light with a stand from Harbor Freight.....picked it up for $25. Worked well for me for five years other than they don't carry the replacement bulbs of that wattage. The lights detach from the stand for close inspection of a surface if need be.

 

[genynnc]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Since you are determined to jump with both feet, this is not applicable to you. But if I were in your shoes, I would have selected a small representative portion of the vehicle and would have already tried the manual method i.e. foam applicator, your chemicals and lots of elbow grease and contrasted the results.


This can still be done... I'm not up to my neck in the event just yet. In your experience, Vikas, have the results from a hand rubbed test spot been similar to machine results?

Originally Posted By: RTexasF


I went with a twin 500 watt halogen light with a stand from Harbor Freight.....picked it up for $25. Worked well for me for five years other than they don't carry the replacement bulbs of that wattage. The lights detach from the stand for close inspection of a surface if need be.


Excellent, I have two halogen stand already and may pick up a third.

 

[RTexasF]

You can always use the rotary (test area first) to remove the majority of the problems then refine with the DA. That's a pretty standard practice. I've found Honda paint soft enough that the DA will do the job with the right pads & chemicals. It's up to you to experiment or not. You are dealing with 10+ year old paint so I would lean to the cautious side and try the DA initially with various pads and chemicals. From your description of the surface I recommended the orange pad but you may want to start off with a white pad and the lightest polish. No go? White pad with a heavier polish....nothing? White pad with a compound. Still nothing? Now start over with an orange pad and the lightest polish and do the whole thing all over again until you find the magic combination. Then go for it. You still MAY need to go over it again with a finishing polish and light cut pad but maybe not. Having owned a Honda I've found the orange pad quite forgiving with the right polish. In my case that would be Menzerna polish but there are many others that do as well.

Here's an example on my '04 Accord.

As I recall this was done with a Cyclo Polisher, orange pads, and Menzerna Intensive Polish. There was no need to go over it a second time. It took me almost an hour to dial in what worked but I'd say it was well worth it. Also I'm slow and methodical so likely you can find the magic combo quicker than I did. I'm an old bird.

 

[RTexasF]

Here's another example. This is the day I brought home my new 2008 RAV4. I machine polished it with the Cyclo, white pads, and Menzerna Finishing polish. It had minor dealer installed swirls and not near as bad as the Honda was. As I recall both pictures are after polishing only, no sealant was applied but I could be wrong as that was some time ago. I knew from experience what to use here and my point is.....EXPERIMENT using fresh pads with each application.

Uh, pictures ARE required of your outcome.