BITOG: Fact-Based or Mostly Opinion?

[Mystic]

BITGO can be either fact based or opinion. If we have facts about something, such as if we had a scientific study of Mobil 1 in a taxi fleet that has been published, that would be fact based. But if somebody here tries some oil supplement and it seems to work that is opinion based on the personal experience of a person we probably do not know. It has always been this way.

And then you have to be careful about advertising. Some oil company could make a lot of claims about their motor oils and claim that their motor oils are better in at least some ways compared to one or more competitors. But advertising can be very deceptive. And statistics can be made to tell a distorted story. Pennzoil for example made claims about the cleaning abilities of Pennzoil Ultra and Pennzoil Platinum (and even conventional Pennzoil compared to other conventional motor oils). Does Pennzoil really clean better? I don't know. But they had some sort of testing information that allowed them to make such claims.

It is hard to get concrete facts about some engine cleaner or oil supplement that is not made by a large oil company. A small company making an oil supplement probably will not be able to afford elaborate testing. On the other hand if several guys here cut apart FRAM oil filters and display photos we have some actual information about how FRAM Oil Filters are constructed.

If several guys do VOAs and UOAs on various motor oils we should have some decent factual information about those motor oils. For example, if 50 guys here have had UOAs done on Valvoline Synpower we should have some general ideas about how that motor oil tends to perform. Although every engine is unique and how people drive their vehicles is unique.

 

[bvance554]

I agree with Quattropete. A lot of questions posted here invite a lot of opinion. When someone asks 'what oil should i use' my answer is also, what does the car call for? Oils are far superior today than what they once were and i think as long as you change it regularly you can't go wrong. But yet when you ask that question you get everyones personal opinion.

On other hand, any question of substance will usually get a lot of vaild, helpful advice. There are a lot of knowledgeable people here, and as a critical thinker you can tell when you're getting good advice and filter out the opinionative [censored].

All internet forums are like this. And of them all, i think the quality of this forum ranks very highly.

 

[aquariuscsm]

In my observation,it`s all either opinion based via experience,or *copy and paste* info from ads or company websites.

It`s a blog/chat forum. It`s great entertainment for the auto enthusiast/hobbiest.

 

[virginoil]

Mainly opinion from posters whom seem to place the OEM recommendations as only an under warranty period requirement and sometimes even "under warranty recommendation" is ignored.

I recall it was said in another post it is only oil after all and responses should be made in the BITOG spirit and respect of Forum rules or something to this effect.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It is hard to prove something as a fact, so informed opinion is good enough for me.

Bingo. The oil companies and automakers have enough difficulty making these distinctions with all the resources they have. We won't do any better. Considering automakers allow different grades all over the world, for example, I'd take that as a lesson that it doesn't matter as much as we like to think it does. Unfortunately, we take the lesson as thicker is better or thinner is better, when "it doesn't matter" is probably more accurate.

This place does help weed out some of the marketing nonsense and old wives tales. It's a great place for people to learn that synthetic isn't going to make their engines last twice as long, or that M1 is the only real synthetic, or RP will give you 10% more horsepower, or that PYB will fill your engine with wax.

This is still a great place. The amount of knowledge here in diverse topics is impressive. As has been stated, though, there are always people coming here looking to find some magic bullet or elixir of life for their vehicle, and such a thing doesn't exist.

Well, maybe there is, in Mola's basement, guarded by a breakaway faction of elves.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: Garak
....... As has been stated, though, there are always people coming here looking to find some magic bullet or elixir of life for their vehicle, and such a thing doesn't exist.

Well, maybe there is, in Mola's basement, guarded by a breakaway faction of elves.

Good point, this has never changed since I first began lurking on this site in 2003.

 

[pscholte]

Some incredibly thoughtful responses...I thank you all and welcome more. Garak, Hans und Jurgen und I would like to hear more about this breakaway faction of Elves, however. Sounds like we have a secessionist group operating on the fringe of what is normally a very ordered, loyal and familial societal structure. (All this is fact-based, you understand.)

 

[Hokiefyd]

I've been here as long as most, and without any breaks-of-ban to fragment my membership period! Although I feel that the tone of posts in general has changed over time, the type of discussion has not. And that's what keeps me coming back. This site has provided me a very unique combination of: learning potential, automotive hobby entertainment, life lessons, etc. I value the variety of discussion boards on here. To be sure, this is one of the only oil-related forum, but each of the many "off topic" sub-forums is WELL represented elsewhere on the internet in the form of dedicated discussion boards. But none of those other boards offers the unique qualities of only being patronized by "car guys"; I think that adds a kind of intangible camaraderie absent elsewhere. And no other board has the same level of high quality moderatorship that blesses this board.

I used to be heavier into discussion boards than I am today. I was a member of at least one board specific to each of the cars I owned at the time, plus BITOG, plus one or two others. These days, I'm not an active member at any board besides BITOG; it offers a certain "homey" feel that no other board does.

BITOG is truly a diamond in the rough that we call the internet.

 

[DBMaster]

This site is like free therapy for me. I tell people I know that the posters on here are far more obsessive about car stuff than I am and they don't believe me!

I can say that it does frustrate me a little when people answer questions without adequate experience, especially if they state their opinions with conviction. I try to preface any opinion statements by stating that this is opinion. I believe excessive maintenance on cars is detrimental to our wallets and environment so I enjoy getting to stand on my soapbox about that!

 

[Kestas]

I think we have a decent enough jury base here, so that if anyone does post a misconception, it can be properly answered and straightened out.

 

[KrisZ]

In my opinion, and I know it for a fact is that I usually try to offer my honest opinion, except when it's based on factual experience which I have no studies for, so then I form my opinion based on the experience, which is a fact because it happened, but I did not document it or compare it to another fact based opinion derived from experience, so in the end...

...what was the question again? Ohh...fact vs opinion. Well fact trumps opinion, but then experience trumps fact which in itself is a fact and then the opinion is formed based on fact or experience or maybe both, but then we have facts that are based on someone else's experience, in which case how do we know it for a fact?

All the above is IMO based on experience so it must be a fact

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Fact based. But that's just my opinion.

There are a lot of posters here who can back up what they say with links or other documentation. A lot of forums aren't like that.

 

[PandaBear]

As my coworker said, "we do precision guess work".

Unless you do UOA every 1k in your driving you won't know if it is fact or bias.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: pscholte
Sounds like we have a secessionist group operating on the fringe of what is normally a very ordered, loyal and familial societal structure.

The rumor mill has it that they didn't like the strict working regimen under ACEA rules. Mola gave them sanctuary under the guise of improving API and ILSAC oils. Truth be told, he was tired of toiling in the lab, put the elves to work, but then he threatened to grind them to Gummi Bears if the secret ever got out. Hence, the faction has guarded the stuff in his basement ever since.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
To be sure, this is one of the only oil-related forum, but each of the many "off topic" sub-forums is WELL represented elsewhere on the internet in the form of dedicated discussion boards. But none of those other boards offers the unique qualities of only being patronized by "car guys"; I think that adds a kind of intangible camaraderie absent elsewhere.

Absolutely. When my friend was having his security system issues with his old Chrysler, I told him I'd check here for advice. He asked why not a dedicated Chrysler forum? Well, the experts there I'm sure are more than sick up handing out free advice to people trying to keep refugees from junkyards on the road. Mechanics posting there might be good with current stuff, but maybe not with dated stuff. At BITOG, however, I know there are Chrysler gurus who are there for the fun of it and have decades of experience, and don't mind the odd question. I was right, and got the correct answer almost immediately.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: PeteTheFarmer
Fact based. But that's just my opinion.

There are a lot of posters here who can back up what they say with links or other documentation. A lot of forums aren't like that.


There's some who don't though. And get huffy when you challenge their claim.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: PeteTheFarmer
Fact based. But that's just my opinion.

There are a lot of posters here who can back up what they say with links or other documentation. A lot of forums aren't like that.


There's some who don't though. And get huffy when you challenge their claim.


Yep and then there are those constantly asking for proof inferring many of our opinions, observations, and testimony is worthless. Yet they can't provide any of the same things they ask of others, to back up claims about products they like. Go figure.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Everything I state on this forum is my opinion. That's a fact.

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Everything I state on this forum is my opinion. That's a fact.

Everything I state on this forum is fact. That's my opinion

 

[Shannow]

When simple textbook physics can be rolled with "doesn't feel right"...draw your own conclusions.