Big Block High Rpm oil question

[JimG]

Hi guys! I asked this question in the "Boat Lube" section, but I think it belongs here. Our motors are much closer in spec to your racing motors. Here's the question:

I run with a group of performance boaters on the Gulf Coast of Texas. All of our engines are based on BBC's, ranging in horsepower from 400 to over 600hp. Most of the guys run Kendall 40wt, and change every 20 hours. (One fella with BRAND NEW HP525EFi's just changed his oil for the first time, and went with Quicksilver 25W40.) Here's the question: I switched my 600hp 509 to Kendall GT1 20W50 based on Mercruisers recommendation to run this oil in their HP1050sc's (at 100k each!!). How does this oil compare to Quicksilver 25W40, and is there another quality dino oil we should be considering? None of us have ever had an oil related issue, and the general consensus among our group is that synthetics are not cost effective for 20 hour oil changes. We use around 80 quarts per season... What about Kendall 50wt Racing oil?

Here's a link to the original thread: Thread

Here's a Mercruiser VOA: Mercruiser VOA

And a link to Kendall's web page: Kendall

Most of us change oil after 20 hours, (10 if we ran a Poker Run!)

Thanks!
Jim

 

[pooter WS6]

Well shell rotella 15W-40 works real well in my father 496 BBC pushing 612 hp. Holds great oil pressure also. The make a rotella synthetic that is supposed to be a little better, haven't found it yet to try it out. Good Luck

 

[Fuelrod]

The 20-50 will get moving MUCH quicker on cold start-ups than straight #50. If it's not broke, don't fix it...

 

[JimG]

quote:

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The 20-50 will get moving MUCH quicker on cold start-ups than straight #50. If it's not broke, don't fix it...

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I think you are right. The Kendall sounds like a good choice.

I always pull the kill switch, and crank the motor until I have 40 lbs of oil pressure before I start, and then idle for several hundred yards before planing anyway.

Thanks!!

 

[Motorbike]

The Kendall 20w-50 will have a tid bit more phos/zinc than the straight 40wt and the HT/HS of 4.8 beats any known 15w-40 diesel oil by a good margin plus the Kendall is friction modified for purpose .

It , the Valvoline VR-1 and the Pennzoil 25w-50 are about it these days in dino's that cut the mustard when spring pressures exceed 400lbs open with an intense cam lobe be it solid lifter flat tappet or roller .

Which one of those belongs to you ?

and what RPM does it turn , length rod , cam and oil pan are you using in the 4.500 x 4.00 509 just for conversations sake ?

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by Motorbike:
It , the Valvoline VR-1 and the Pennzoil 25w-50 are about it these days in dino's that cut the mustard when spring pressures exceed 400lbs open with an intense cam lobe be it solid lifter flat tappet or roller .

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That's just straight BS!

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jelly:

quote:

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Originally posted by Motorbike:
It , the Valvoline VR-1 and the Pennzoil 25w-50 are about it these days in dino's that cut the mustard when spring pressures exceed 400lbs open with an intense cam lobe be it solid lifter flat tappet or roller .

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That's just straight BS!

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Clue me in then . This is a boat that runs longer than 12 seconds at a time

 

[Motorbike]

BTW , whats up with the temper ?

Can't you reply in a more friendly manor ?

 

[joee12]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jelly:

quote:

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Originally posted by Motorbike:
It , the Valvoline VR-1 and the Pennzoil 25w-50 are about it these days in dino's that cut the mustard when spring pressures exceed 400lbs open with an intense cam lobe be it solid lifter flat tappet or roller .

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That's just straight BS!

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Jelly, that was un-called for. Can't there be a discussion on HDEOs without you attacking Motorbike

. Let's have a civil discussion about this so that we can help Jim with his quest for knowledge

 

[JimG]

Thanks guys!

Motorbike, it's a roller cam, Ultradyne 296/306 @ .006, .558/.598 lift, 112 degree lobe center. It'll turn 5600 rpm all day, (about 85mph with a 27 Hydro prop), has 502 length rods, JE pistons, Merlin VR heads, Crane gold roller rockers, CMI headers and a Brodix intake. Oil capacity is 9 qts. Currently propped for midrange and long engine life at around 5100rpm with a labbed 30' Bravo prop. It's mounted in a 26' Kevlar Thoroughbred.

This is an amazing sport, and I'm always learning. Here, a 540 putting out 650hp is considered "mild power". My 509 is small. A lot of guys are running 572s and 632s. Big blower motors at 1200hp are commonplace. And some guys will run for HOURS at 5500rpm, (not me!)

JimG

 

[Rickey]

My 2 cents worth: WOT for long periods of time equals lots of oppurtunity for preignition and detonation in my opinion. Therefore an oil with an "ashless detergent" which supposedly would leave less combustion chamber deposits if burned might be desireable. Valvoline's racing oils used to claim this feature. Maybe Valvoline's (and others?) still do? Maybe some one can chime in on the "ashless detergent" claims. I always wondered if this was hype or real. Rickey.

 

[Motorbike]

It's a real concern to an extent in some racing and Redline goes into some detail at their website last saw . Also the low .9 SA of Pennzoils 25w-50 kinda shows the trend now that the the need for added valve protection is all but a thing of the past with premium seats and 21-4N stainless , 21-4N Stainless Annealed , NK-844 Intake and XH-428 exhaust and other severe duty Iconel valves all about .

Those Big Chevies will blow some oil no doubt for three main reasons but if I was to burn some oil for a couple non drag race seasons like off shore boating before an engine refesh I'd certainly rather burn .9 SA oil vs 1.57 or so with all those un-needed metallics used in oils meant to keep TBN high and disperse soot in engines burning high sulfur fuels AKA diesel betting Mercruiser knows this

Geeze , roller valvetrain and 25 hours of 5k rpm will crush the oils pretty good then factor in most AF ratio's are rich @ WOT it will get by the rings .

Imagine an oil shearing heavy springed roller cammed Big Block Chevy in a 3.23 geared Camaro running at 5500 rpm on the interstate . Just the mechanical noise from those hi-intensity cam profiles are enough to alert what might be stressing an oil but how many miles could be driven in 25 hours and whether or not you would change the oil when you got to the end of that time period and distance or if you would turn around and drive home with the same oil or..... just change midway

Especially if your the one footing the bill for the valve train and kaos created when a lifter gets sideways from temp vi shear or a roller failure ect .

I want the HT/HS in a dino , but really want the superior film strength and weld point load of a well formulated synlube . Might even throw in a great result of the FZG gear test procedure

But I'm no expert

So use what the big buck guys get by with is my opinion .

[ January 07, 2005, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

 

[JimG]

quote:

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Imagine an oil shearing heavy springed roller cammed Big Block Chevy in a 3.23 geared Camaro running at 5500 rpm on the interstate .

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You forgot running uphill pulling a trailer...

What about Shaeffer (sp?)?

 

[Motorbike]

With the trailer brakes on to boot .

Nah on the other oil in your particular engine unless it's local and 23 bucks a case like your probably paying .

I would seriously consider the Pennzoil 25w-50 though now that curiosity got to me and I asked a friend to send me a couple analysis's after a dyno pull and a few passes in his Blown Gas Rodeck .

It's 20 bucks or so per case also .