old discussion
Hi all, This thread was closed so I provided a link and here's some of my experience and thoughts.
I 1/4 mile drag race an injected 555cid 14.5:1 CBB. I had used Kendall 20W-50 for 10 years till the Co was sold and it was obvious the oil was different. I know that because I have a hand full of VOA's I had done. My M&M 4 link dual slip dragster runs 7.5's on hp and 7.2's with 180 hp for about 4 sec. I run a System One filter with 30micron element. I have a 3 qt accumulator with ele valve, so I can pre lube on start. I also have an air filter to lower the injection of silicon. I have never had a big problem with oil dilution because of the ring seal and the tune up so that was never an issue. I have had problems with detonation. Methanol and oil are far worse the gas and oil in this area. It's extremely hard to get the ring seal perfect. I go 25 passes and change the oil. Working with Blackstone (test data only) and Terry Dyson I made some oil changes. I have a limited race budget and would not go as far as Terry recommended, but his purchased advise and suggestions helped a great deal. I ended up running Vavoline 20W-50 most of the year. This eng has 0.0036 main clearence and 0.022 side on the rods and OEM Bow Tie lifter bores and I need the thick oil to maintain pressure. I used a modifired Melling HV pump with the anti cavitaion slots and clearneces set and I increased the bypass pressure some. With all that I had an avg of 65 pis measure at the front eng oil galley on my data collector over the 1/4 mile WOT pass. I tried Schaeffers Micronmoly Race 40W and concluded it was better than the VR-1, but when I went back to buy some more, just 6 months later the price had 2x'd. It was comparable to VR-1 in cost before, but no longer used becsue they jacked the prive. The VR-1 has not gone up like that and is stoll around 2.25/qt and easy to get. Bottom line this time, the eng had 170 runs on it when I took it apart for rebuild and the Coated Clevite H bearings had some signs of fatigue, but would have gone another 100 passes I think. This is almost twice as many runs as I had ever made on that bottom end so oil change from Kendall helped for sure and that Zinc in the VR-1 is what I think helped plus the added air filter and limited runs for change of 25. Rod bearings alwasy look perfect. They are not coated and are Clevie H that have the radius for the large main pin radiused corners.
I have always had some mech issues and I want a "perfect engine" so I have gone to a fully counter weighted Callis Magnum plus crank (replacing a Cola 4340 forged crank), Titan gyro oil pump, a Crane 4-7 swap cam, Gas ported CP pistons and Speed Pro **** Fire rings. I want a better seal and perfect mech performance. I also plan to re balance with a slight Under balance making the rotating Bob weight less. This apparently helps. After I break in in on gas and get a few events on VR-1 I may swap over to Royal Purple or use an additive as strongley suggested by Terry. VR-1 is very good but I want to pull it apart at tyhe end of the year and see perfect bearings.
I truly feel many of the non drag race oil experts do not have sufficient info to make valid comments when dealing with engines that make 900+ hp. Many just fall back to oil to fundamentals. I'm pretty sure that the whole idea of finding Methanol dilution in an oil UOA sample is flawed because of test equipment and time. I also think the need for thick oil is under rated. I think most bracket racers, like myself would be glad to give up some HP and get better reliability. We are not all Comp and class racers looking for that last bit. Many have been brain washed because of the games with oil as a result of the new oil ratings and requirement for fleet gas millage. Thin oil helps all that, but what about reliability? Never seen much written out how trend has been going. I do read about many engines that make noise and the OEM says it's OK. Piston slap and what else. Anyway thats apples and oranges to compare any of that to what I do and need.
The engine machinist I have this time is the chief machinist for Blue Thunder in Ft Lauderdale. They build many off shore race engines. He is recommending a tighter main bearing clearance than many others. I'm have a hard time deciding on this one. He recommends 2.7 to 3.0. most others want 3.5 min??? Anyone one have verified 1st hand experience in this and can help me some? My personal feeling is the larger clearance will deal with a flex (mech distortion) issue better, but would not be as kind to the bearings. Remember I have beefed up the rotating part. The tighter deal must have a straight crank and sturdy block / caps ets. Seems odd flipping out over a .001" or so, but the feeling is it is important.
On this subject how large can the oil wedge get to? If the clearance is .004 (,oo2 per side if crank is in the middle which it never is) will that be full if oil and keep the crank from moving? I think that as the crank moves around in the bearing journal, at some point it gets some strong support from the oil wedge but I have no idea how THICK that wedge is at that point??? Any facts on that would help. I think it has to do with the shear that replates to oil and temp????
I'm heading out to put my Race Glide back together. SFI mandates a fact inspection every year at the factory. So I had to take it apart clean it and send it from Fl to CA. The OEM charged $75 to eye ball it and put new stickers. They do no testing at all. Totalk cost was $130 with Shipping.
I'm glad to see this Race area still is happening.
I had a hard time getting this started last year, but felt it was worth the effort.
Hi all, This thread was closed so I provided a link and here's some of my experience and thoughts.
I 1/4 mile drag race an injected 555cid 14.5:1 CBB. I had used Kendall 20W-50 for 10 years till the Co was sold and it was obvious the oil was different. I know that because I have a hand full of VOA's I had done. My M&M 4 link dual slip dragster runs 7.5's on hp and 7.2's with 180 hp for about 4 sec. I run a System One filter with 30micron element. I have a 3 qt accumulator with ele valve, so I can pre lube on start. I also have an air filter to lower the injection of silicon. I have never had a big problem with oil dilution because of the ring seal and the tune up so that was never an issue. I have had problems with detonation. Methanol and oil are far worse the gas and oil in this area. It's extremely hard to get the ring seal perfect. I go 25 passes and change the oil. Working with Blackstone (test data only) and Terry Dyson I made some oil changes. I have a limited race budget and would not go as far as Terry recommended, but his purchased advise and suggestions helped a great deal. I ended up running Vavoline 20W-50 most of the year. This eng has 0.0036 main clearence and 0.022 side on the rods and OEM Bow Tie lifter bores and I need the thick oil to maintain pressure. I used a modifired Melling HV pump with the anti cavitaion slots and clearneces set and I increased the bypass pressure some. With all that I had an avg of 65 pis measure at the front eng oil galley on my data collector over the 1/4 mile WOT pass. I tried Schaeffers Micronmoly Race 40W and concluded it was better than the VR-1, but when I went back to buy some more, just 6 months later the price had 2x'd. It was comparable to VR-1 in cost before, but no longer used becsue they jacked the prive. The VR-1 has not gone up like that and is stoll around 2.25/qt and easy to get. Bottom line this time, the eng had 170 runs on it when I took it apart for rebuild and the Coated Clevite H bearings had some signs of fatigue, but would have gone another 100 passes I think. This is almost twice as many runs as I had ever made on that bottom end so oil change from Kendall helped for sure and that Zinc in the VR-1 is what I think helped plus the added air filter and limited runs for change of 25. Rod bearings alwasy look perfect. They are not coated and are Clevie H that have the radius for the large main pin radiused corners.
I have always had some mech issues and I want a "perfect engine" so I have gone to a fully counter weighted Callis Magnum plus crank (replacing a Cola 4340 forged crank), Titan gyro oil pump, a Crane 4-7 swap cam, Gas ported CP pistons and Speed Pro **** Fire rings. I want a better seal and perfect mech performance. I also plan to re balance with a slight Under balance making the rotating Bob weight less. This apparently helps. After I break in in on gas and get a few events on VR-1 I may swap over to Royal Purple or use an additive as strongley suggested by Terry. VR-1 is very good but I want to pull it apart at tyhe end of the year and see perfect bearings.
I truly feel many of the non drag race oil experts do not have sufficient info to make valid comments when dealing with engines that make 900+ hp. Many just fall back to oil to fundamentals. I'm pretty sure that the whole idea of finding Methanol dilution in an oil UOA sample is flawed because of test equipment and time. I also think the need for thick oil is under rated. I think most bracket racers, like myself would be glad to give up some HP and get better reliability. We are not all Comp and class racers looking for that last bit. Many have been brain washed because of the games with oil as a result of the new oil ratings and requirement for fleet gas millage. Thin oil helps all that, but what about reliability? Never seen much written out how trend has been going. I do read about many engines that make noise and the OEM says it's OK. Piston slap and what else. Anyway thats apples and oranges to compare any of that to what I do and need.
The engine machinist I have this time is the chief machinist for Blue Thunder in Ft Lauderdale. They build many off shore race engines. He is recommending a tighter main bearing clearance than many others. I'm have a hard time deciding on this one. He recommends 2.7 to 3.0. most others want 3.5 min??? Anyone one have verified 1st hand experience in this and can help me some? My personal feeling is the larger clearance will deal with a flex (mech distortion) issue better, but would not be as kind to the bearings. Remember I have beefed up the rotating part. The tighter deal must have a straight crank and sturdy block / caps ets. Seems odd flipping out over a .001" or so, but the feeling is it is important.
On this subject how large can the oil wedge get to? If the clearance is .004 (,oo2 per side if crank is in the middle which it never is) will that be full if oil and keep the crank from moving? I think that as the crank moves around in the bearing journal, at some point it gets some strong support from the oil wedge but I have no idea how THICK that wedge is at that point??? Any facts on that would help. I think it has to do with the shear that replates to oil and temp????
I'm heading out to put my Race Glide back together. SFI mandates a fact inspection every year at the factory. So I had to take it apart clean it and send it from Fl to CA. The OEM charged $75 to eye ball it and put new stickers. They do no testing at all. Totalk cost was $130 with Shipping.
I'm glad to see this Race area still is happening.
