He must be coming around. He recently bought one of the last E46 325s for his own.
Best oil for BMW 335i N54 twin turbo?
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He must be coming around. He recently bought one of the last E46 325s for his own.
Mike Miller also writes for Bimmer mag as well. I see the same leanings toward specific older "enthusiast" BMWS.
BTW, they edit the heck out letters to the editor to make things "more interesting" and they no not mind altering intent as well.
BTW, they edit the heck out letters to the editor to make things "more interesting" and they no not mind altering intent as well.
I am posting here on behalf of a friend whose BITOG registration is awaiting approval. THANKS, in advance !!
Earlier in this thread "BMWDriver" said:
"Actually, 2007 was the first year model of the new TT 335i N54 engine."
and he said:
"Also, the BMW 5-30 oil I bought at the dealer has LL-01 and LL-04 on the label."
I'm curious about the BMW 5W-30 synthetic bought at a dealership that is stated by "BMWDriver" as having " LL-01 and LL-04 on the label".
"BMWDriver", could you provide us with the Part Number on YOUR bottle, and possibly the date code...or maybe a photo of the bottle?
The bottle of BMW 5W-30 synthetic oil that I purchased from my dealer last week carries the P/N 07 51 0 017 866....AND is labeled: "Meets all requirements of ACEA A3/B3 for maximum gasoline and diesel passenger car protection" and "Meets API Service SL/CF" and what presume is the date code across the bottom "A07220 1 1044 "
Interestingly enough, when I open the hood of MY 335i that was built in July, 2007, it says to use the following BMW 5W-30 oil, 07.51-0 002 545. I asked my dealer to enter this latter part number (as found under the hood) into his computer... and upon doing same, the computer cross referenced it back to the P/N on the bottle I had previously purchased.
Hummmm...NEW, twin turbo engine (with high operating temps) and OLD spec oil ???
So, I'm now wondering if SOME of the dealers/distributors are just attempting to clear their stock of the old oil before they sell the new LL-04 stuff (...is there a LL-07 oil ????). They deny that's the case.
I fear that my new engine is in "Oil Limbo" !!!
HELP !!!
Earlier in this thread "BMWDriver" said:
"Actually, 2007 was the first year model of the new TT 335i N54 engine."
and he said:
"Also, the BMW 5-30 oil I bought at the dealer has LL-01 and LL-04 on the label."
I'm curious about the BMW 5W-30 synthetic bought at a dealership that is stated by "BMWDriver" as having " LL-01 and LL-04 on the label".
"BMWDriver", could you provide us with the Part Number on YOUR bottle, and possibly the date code...or maybe a photo of the bottle?
The bottle of BMW 5W-30 synthetic oil that I purchased from my dealer last week carries the P/N 07 51 0 017 866....AND is labeled: "Meets all requirements of ACEA A3/B3 for maximum gasoline and diesel passenger car protection" and "Meets API Service SL/CF" and what presume is the date code across the bottom "A07220 1 1044 "
Interestingly enough, when I open the hood of MY 335i that was built in July, 2007, it says to use the following BMW 5W-30 oil, 07.51-0 002 545. I asked my dealer to enter this latter part number (as found under the hood) into his computer... and upon doing same, the computer cross referenced it back to the P/N on the bottle I had previously purchased.
Hummmm...NEW, twin turbo engine (with high operating temps) and OLD spec oil ???
So, I'm now wondering if SOME of the dealers/distributors are just attempting to clear their stock of the old oil before they sell the new LL-04 stuff (...is there a LL-07 oil ????). They deny that's the case.
I fear that my new engine is in "Oil Limbo" !!!
HELP !!!
Sorry, I filled the car and threw the empty bottles in the trash. Didn't have any leftover. I tried to find that data from an on line retailer, but haven't.
I'll be glad to post the data when I get back to dealer and buy more, but that's probably going to be a while since I don't put very many miles on my car.
I'll be glad to post the data when I get back to dealer and buy more, but that's probably going to be a while since I don't put very many miles on my car.
First off thanks to IndyV10's for posting on my behalf while I was waiting for approval to post on this site.
To BMWDriver, could you tell me the dealer you purchased your oil from? I'd like to purchase some of this oil and see if there finally is a BMW 5W30 with the ratings CM; LL01/LL04.
Thanks in advance.
Originally Posted By: IndyV10's
Hi, Mike. Too bad BMWDriver hasn't answered so that you could track this particular oil...presuming that it really exists.
Yeah I've also been waiting for a reply. I've done some checking around southern CA dealers and haven't seen anything but the old standard 5w30.
Hi, Mike. Too bad BMWDriver hasn't answered so that you could track this particular oil...presuming that it really exists.
Yeah I've also been waiting for a reply. I've done some checking around southern CA dealers and haven't seen anything but the old standard 5w30.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
M1 5W30 ESP from a Chrysler dealer?
http://avlube.com/mo1espfo5wvw.html
$10.50/qt!!!
M1 5W30 ESP from a Chrysler dealer?
http://avlube.com/mo1espfo5wvw.html
$10.50/qt!!!
Hi Terry,
It is quite scary reading that all the normally good oils take strain in the N54 motor and I can't help but wonder how an oil like Motul 300V would perform since many of the high performance 4 cylinder Turbo crowd find it to work well even under track conditions? I suppose the warrantee would be an issue, but then that can be side stepped in several ways.
It is quite scary reading that all the normally good oils take strain in the N54 motor and I can't help but wonder how an oil like Motul 300V would perform since many of the high performance 4 cylinder Turbo crowd find it to work well even under track conditions? I suppose the warrantee would be an issue, but then that can be side stepped in several ways.
Track Day - Would it be unreasonable to assume that racing teams build and modify engines for a purpose. Simply seeking an oil "solution" for a production car seems shortsighted. Doubtless you should use the most appropriate oil and dump it after your track day. The overheating is entirely another issue or collection of issues as seen here:http://forums.evolutionm.net/archive/index.php/t-222804.html
I quote:
Each and every car overheated and shut down. Hmmmm, how's that? Yup! The oil temperature on every car shot to 300 degrees and the cars shut down. We learned that early on and instructed every driver to watch it closely. Driving amounted to about 5 hot laps, 2 parade laps, and so on. Never saw anything like it yet. Talk about a fatal flaw on these vehicles. Can't wait to see this happen to the general public and see how BMW responds. I guarantee you we were not pushing these so hard that no one will ever experience what we did. In fact, one of the ABCC members took a car home with him and on his ride in to the track, aggressively I might add, overheated it and shut down on him.>>>
All new stock engines are designed to reduce emissions. Lean burn is part of that strategy for many of them. Lean burn is not a race setup. A race setup would more likely be a 2 ft flame from the exhaust when the throttle is lifted.
Never the less you should use the most appropriate oil, if one actually exists for that set of engine difficulties. And this is the place to get assistance with oil selection.
Good luck.
I quote:
Each and every car overheated and shut down. Hmmmm, how's that? Yup! The oil temperature on every car shot to 300 degrees and the cars shut down. We learned that early on and instructed every driver to watch it closely. Driving amounted to about 5 hot laps, 2 parade laps, and so on. Never saw anything like it yet. Talk about a fatal flaw on these vehicles. Can't wait to see this happen to the general public and see how BMW responds. I guarantee you we were not pushing these so hard that no one will ever experience what we did. In fact, one of the ABCC members took a car home with him and on his ride in to the track, aggressively I might add, overheated it and shut down on him.>>>
All new stock engines are designed to reduce emissions. Lean burn is part of that strategy for many of them. Lean burn is not a race setup. A race setup would more likely be a 2 ft flame from the exhaust when the throttle is lifted.
Never the less you should use the most appropriate oil, if one actually exists for that set of engine difficulties. And this is the place to get assistance with oil selection.
Good luck.
The overheating issue is well documented at the track and BMW has responded by retrofitting oil coolers to the cars of people that are having trouble. It shouldn't have happened in the first place, but they have acknowledged the problem and new cars are shipping with the cooler in place.
Originally Posted By: groucho
here:http://forums.evolutionm.net/archive/index.php/t-222804.html
I quote:
Each and every car overheated and shut down. Hmmmm, how's that? Yup! The oil temperature on every car shot to 300 degrees and the cars shut down. We learned that early on and instructed every driver to watch it closely. Driving amounted to about 5 hot laps, 2 parade laps, and so on. Never saw anything like it yet. Talk about a fatal flaw on these vehicles. Can't wait to see this happen to the general public and see how BMW responds. I guarantee you we were not pushing these so hard that no one will ever experience what we did. In fact, one of the ABCC members took a car home with him and on his ride in to the track, aggressively I might add, overheated it and shut down on him.>>>
All new stock engines are designed to reduce emissions. Lean burn is part of that strategy for many of them. Lean burn is not a race setup. A race setup would more likely be a 2 ft flame from the exhaust when the throttle is lifted.
Never the less you should use the most appropriate oil, if one actually exists for that set of engine difficulties. And this is the place to get assistance with oil selection.
Good luck.
I'm curious if you know the date this track day took place? What I'd like to ascertain is if these 335's are pre oil cooler installation or heaven help us post oil cooler.
MK
here:http://forums.evolutionm.net/archive/index.php/t-222804.html
I quote:
Each and every car overheated and shut down. Hmmmm, how's that? Yup! The oil temperature on every car shot to 300 degrees and the cars shut down. We learned that early on and instructed every driver to watch it closely. Driving amounted to about 5 hot laps, 2 parade laps, and so on. Never saw anything like it yet. Talk about a fatal flaw on these vehicles. Can't wait to see this happen to the general public and see how BMW responds. I guarantee you we were not pushing these so hard that no one will ever experience what we did. In fact, one of the ABCC members took a car home with him and on his ride in to the track, aggressively I might add, overheated it and shut down on him.>>>
All new stock engines are designed to reduce emissions. Lean burn is part of that strategy for many of them. Lean burn is not a race setup. A race setup would more likely be a 2 ft flame from the exhaust when the throttle is lifted.
Never the less you should use the most appropriate oil, if one actually exists for that set of engine difficulties. And this is the place to get assistance with oil selection.
Good luck.
I'm curious if you know the date this track day took place? What I'd like to ascertain is if these 335's are pre oil cooler installation or heaven help us post oil cooler.
MK
Here is the quoted thread, Mike...also, read the other threads listed below the main text:
http://forums.audiworld.com/lrqc/msgs/84866.phtml
Interesting and WORRISOME stuff!!! One would THINK that a manufacturer could/would anticipate this problem, as it is NOT new technology or application of same.
Sure hope BMW is not mking anything for Airbus
http://forums.audiworld.com/lrqc/msgs/84866.phtml
Interesting and WORRISOME stuff!!! One would THINK that a manufacturer could/would anticipate this problem, as it is NOT new technology or application of same.
Sure hope BMW is not mking anything for Airbus
Originally Posted By: mdkmd80
Originally Posted By: groucho
here:http://forums.evolutionm.net/archive/index.php/t-222804.html
I quote:
Each and every car overheated and shut down. Hmmmm, how's that? Yup! The oil temperature on every car shot to 300 degrees and the cars shut down. We learned that early on and instructed every driver to watch it closely. Driving amounted to about 5 hot laps, 2 parade laps, and so on. Never saw anything like it yet. Talk about a fatal flaw on these vehicles. Can't wait to see this happen to the general public and see how BMW responds. I guarantee you we were not pushing these so hard that no one will ever experience what we did. In fact, one of the ABCC members took a car home with him and on his ride in to the track, aggressively I might add, overheated it and shut down on him.>>>
All new stock engines are designed to reduce emissions. Lean burn is part of that strategy for many of them. Lean burn is not a race setup. A race setup would more likely be a 2 ft flame from the exhaust when the throttle is lifted.
Never the less you should use the most appropriate oil, if one actually exists for that set of engine difficulties. And this is the place to get assistance with oil selection.
Good luck.
I'm curious if you know the date this track day took place? What I'd like to ascertain is if these 335's are pre oil cooler installation or heaven help us post oil cooler.
MK
Sorry the url didn't light up. The discussion was in Sept. 06. Also, in the thread it was mentioned that the manual trans had a cooler, the auto did not. I assume they meant a trans cooler. If an engine oil cooler was meant, I misunderstood.
However, the originator of this thread has an 07 and temps are up as he mentions later on in the thread. I think that flogging a car on the track creates stresses that are significantly different from normal street driving, even "rapid" street driving. My point would be that racing teams do not simply find the "right" oil, they blueprint in minute fashion the engines that go into the machines, many of them lasting mere hours in competition even though tens of thousands of USD were spent to make them competitive. It is a very costly process. Thus, my comment that I didn't suppose that the right oil would eliminate the overheating issue. Obviously the right oil should be determined to lessen the damage of the overheat condition if it persists. The entire process of stock engine management is controlled by emissions consideration plus mileage issues.I think few unmodified production cars could cope with flatout track sessions of long duration without significant problems or outright failures. Unfortunately, I might add.
I also assumed that they were testing the 07 model. I have been thinking of taking a look at BMW but I am currently pretty well fried at the thought of dealing with any manufacturer at the moment.
I also add that the oil info here is superb, even though I frequently don't understand some of the debate. I have done my first UOAs and I think continued evaluations will be useful. My situation is now that I don't drive all that much and hardly ever keep anything past 24 months.
Originally Posted By: groucho
here:http://forums.evolutionm.net/archive/index.php/t-222804.html
I quote:
Each and every car overheated and shut down. Hmmmm, how's that? Yup! The oil temperature on every car shot to 300 degrees and the cars shut down. We learned that early on and instructed every driver to watch it closely. Driving amounted to about 5 hot laps, 2 parade laps, and so on. Never saw anything like it yet. Talk about a fatal flaw on these vehicles. Can't wait to see this happen to the general public and see how BMW responds. I guarantee you we were not pushing these so hard that no one will ever experience what we did. In fact, one of the ABCC members took a car home with him and on his ride in to the track, aggressively I might add, overheated it and shut down on him.>>>
All new stock engines are designed to reduce emissions. Lean burn is part of that strategy for many of them. Lean burn is not a race setup. A race setup would more likely be a 2 ft flame from the exhaust when the throttle is lifted.
Never the less you should use the most appropriate oil, if one actually exists for that set of engine difficulties. And this is the place to get assistance with oil selection.
Good luck.
I'm curious if you know the date this track day took place? What I'd like to ascertain is if these 335's are pre oil cooler installation or heaven help us post oil cooler.
MK
Sorry the url didn't light up. The discussion was in Sept. 06. Also, in the thread it was mentioned that the manual trans had a cooler, the auto did not. I assume they meant a trans cooler. If an engine oil cooler was meant, I misunderstood.
However, the originator of this thread has an 07 and temps are up as he mentions later on in the thread. I think that flogging a car on the track creates stresses that are significantly different from normal street driving, even "rapid" street driving. My point would be that racing teams do not simply find the "right" oil, they blueprint in minute fashion the engines that go into the machines, many of them lasting mere hours in competition even though tens of thousands of USD were spent to make them competitive. It is a very costly process. Thus, my comment that I didn't suppose that the right oil would eliminate the overheating issue. Obviously the right oil should be determined to lessen the damage of the overheat condition if it persists. The entire process of stock engine management is controlled by emissions consideration plus mileage issues.I think few unmodified production cars could cope with flatout track sessions of long duration without significant problems or outright failures. Unfortunately, I might add.
I also assumed that they were testing the 07 model. I have been thinking of taking a look at BMW but I am currently pretty well fried at the thought of dealing with any manufacturer at the moment.
I also add that the oil info here is superb, even though I frequently don't understand some of the debate. I have done my first UOAs and I think continued evaluations will be useful. My situation is now that I don't drive all that much and hardly ever keep anything past 24 months.
Thanks for the input groucho. The Autobahn cars in Joliet, IL are all automatic trans equipped cars (BMW calls it Steptronic) and as others have posted early (pre March 2007 production) automatic 335s equipped with the sports package DID NOT come from the factory with the supplemental oil cooler in the right front wheels well. Worse yet, the automatic is cooled by a jacket radiator married to the main radiator thereby introducing additional transmission heat to the system. The auto 335s without the additional oil cooler would overheat within a lap or two of hard driving.
Your comments about lean burn are correct. How else could my 320 rwhp 335 (mild tune) get 29mpg cruising down the freeway at 80mph? This drops off dramatically under boost. But without turning my street car and commuter into a track car I was hoping to avoid more drastic measures to keep heat down. my first thought was a different oil but no others appear to reduce heat a noticeable amount. GC 0w-30 appears to appeal to the N54.
Dinan is about to release a higher capacity oil cooler to help cool the oil on track days. Given it's from Dinan it's certain to be expensive but this may be the only option.
Your comments about lean burn are correct. How else could my 320 rwhp 335 (mild tune) get 29mpg cruising down the freeway at 80mph? This drops off dramatically under boost. But without turning my street car and commuter into a track car I was hoping to avoid more drastic measures to keep heat down. my first thought was a different oil but no others appear to reduce heat a noticeable amount. GC 0w-30 appears to appeal to the N54.
Dinan is about to release a higher capacity oil cooler to help cool the oil on track days. Given it's from Dinan it's certain to be expensive but this may be the only option.
reb03: Yeah, i noticed the remarks about lean burn in the EVO chatter.One notices that race cars generally are "flamers" and shoot out the obligatory 2 ft. flame when the throttle is lifted. I think given the emissions emphasis that controls the computer mapping the likelihood of having a fun car that can be flogged diminishes. I also note that some of the cars mentioned in the other link (same event) shutdown for ABS events. The situation is similar to buying a newer Jeep Wrangler, say, and expecting stellar off-road or snow performance with ESP, ABS, and all the other programmed parameters that are designed to keep the vehicle level, not braked hard, not inclined, not running too fast, not wheels spinning, etc. Include the run-flats, TPMS and NAV systems with black box recorders, the enthusiast is somewhat restrained. Likely there will soon be driver bio-monitoring that will detect an adrenaline rush and put everything in limp mode posthaste, perhaps the driver also with a tazer connected to the system.
I not pushing or trashing brands but just note certain models for info purposes, but a Nismo tuned Z, which is tuned quite thoroughly apparently for a showroom purchase, including the engine and even additional body welds ala a Rally car, could likely be trashed rather quickly on track by someone who enjoyed driving and was also capable of flogging it relentlessly, as in "race". Compliance for the street in these days is the rule.
In any case, the search for the right oil is imperative for your model I think. And, I would jump on a real oil cooler and also a larger capacity sump pan if one exists.
I not pushing or trashing brands but just note certain models for info purposes, but a Nismo tuned Z, which is tuned quite thoroughly apparently for a showroom purchase, including the engine and even additional body welds ala a Rally car, could likely be trashed rather quickly on track by someone who enjoyed driving and was also capable of flogging it relentlessly, as in "race". Compliance for the street in these days is the rule.
In any case, the search for the right oil is imperative for your model I think. And, I would jump on a real oil cooler and also a larger capacity sump pan if one exists.
Originally Posted By: groucho
Likely there will soon be driver bio-monitoring that will detect an adrenaline rush and put everything in limp mode posthaste, perhaps the driver also with a tazer connected to the system.
Even more OT, I can foresee legislation against human driving itself once computerized guidance systems become sophisticated and reliable enough. The safety lobby and a fair chunk of the population who view driving as a chore would probably welcome it.
- Scott
Likely there will soon be driver bio-monitoring that will detect an adrenaline rush and put everything in limp mode posthaste, perhaps the driver also with a tazer connected to the system.
Even more OT, I can foresee legislation against human driving itself once computerized guidance systems become sophisticated and reliable enough. The safety lobby and a fair chunk of the population who view driving as a chore would probably welcome it.
- Scott
Something is not right. I would be peeved if I bought a high performance car and it overheated after five laps. Germany still has open Autobahns in places, and German cars were always made to run wide open all day long. If I had one it would have the six speed, but that's immaterial.
Since the SCCA still has Showroom Stock classes, there must be some cars left that can hold up for half an hour on the track?
Since the SCCA still has Showroom Stock classes, there must be some cars left that can hold up for half an hour on the track?
I have a 6MT. The car does fine under full boost at high speed with good air flow to the rad and oil cooler. It's when the car is taken on a road course in 95+ degree ambient that things get dicey. My car overheated on the slow sections of the track where you are on full boost out of a corner then brake for another corner and on full boost again on exit. In these slower sections there doesn't appear to be enough air flow on the rad or the oil cooler to keep temps in check. I never had these problems with my M3s or other BMWs but they weren't turbos. The M3 is designed to take track abuse while I suppose the 335 wasn't intended for this but, still, BMW should know the enthusiast base will being doing it so it's frustrating sufficient cooling wasn't built into the design.
Is oil temp or coolant temp going too high? If its oil temp, you need a bigger oil cooler, probably with an electric fan. If it's coolant temp, you probably need a bigger aluminum radiator. Either way, you might want to contact Dinan; they know BMWs better than anyone. Personally, I would use Mobil 1 in the weight BMW recommends, but I'd ask Dinan if any other synthetic oil really performs significantly better in your application.
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