Integra (GSR, Type R, etc) is a good handling compact, but not an econobox. It costs $20k NEW, or more.
Best handling econobox car ever?
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Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Integra (GSR, Type R, etc) is a good handling compact, but not an econobox. It costs $20k NEW, or more.
Just the GS-R and Type R? Sure. Type Rs in Dallas were selling at $5000 over sticker price (meanwhile, just a short drive to Oklahoma City they were at or below MSRP...all about demand)
But the Integra RS was less expensive than the $17,000 '99-'00 Civic Si. You had to go without a rear wiper, alloy wheels, moonroof, and don't even think about the extra set of cam lobes. Power falls off at about 6500 rpm. It still handles remarkably well.
Integra LS comes in about even and the Integra GS with leather came out a little higher than the EM1 Civic Si.
Integra (GSR, Type R, etc) is a good handling compact, but not an econobox. It costs $20k NEW, or more.
Just the GS-R and Type R? Sure. Type Rs in Dallas were selling at $5000 over sticker price (meanwhile, just a short drive to Oklahoma City they were at or below MSRP...all about demand)
But the Integra RS was less expensive than the $17,000 '99-'00 Civic Si. You had to go without a rear wiper, alloy wheels, moonroof, and don't even think about the extra set of cam lobes. Power falls off at about 6500 rpm. It still handles remarkably well.
Integra LS comes in about even and the Integra GS with leather came out a little higher than the EM1 Civic Si.
I'm not sure econobox is the right term to use here. Some cars that used to be classified as econoboxes are costing as much as a mid-sized sedan used to.
i.e. I would consider the Civic an econobox up to around 2005. I wouldn't consider the current Focus, Cruze, Mazda 3, Jetta, Golf, etc. econoboxes either.
Maybe if the OP specified a price limit then it would be a clearer definition.
i.e. I would consider the Civic an econobox up to around 2005. I wouldn't consider the current Focus, Cruze, Mazda 3, Jetta, Golf, etc. econoboxes either.
Maybe if the OP specified a price limit then it would be a clearer definition.
For the time, the CRX SI would get my vote.
The one that started it all in the modern era was the VW Golf (Rabbit) GTI. The first two generations (1976-1992) were the best and while more modern models are faster the original and second generation still handle the best and have that rare suspension that gives you a fantastic handling car, but still give you a comfortable enough suspension that you can drive it every day for run of the mill things like work and going to the store.
The current models that fit the description are the Mazda 2, Honda Fit, and the Fiat 500...especially the Abarth.
The current models that fit the description are the Mazda 2, Honda Fit, and the Fiat 500...especially the Abarth.
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
The one that started it all in the modern era was the VW Golf (Rabbit) GTI. The first two generations (1976-1992) were the best and while more modern models are faster the original and second generation still handle the best and have that rare suspension that gives you a fantastic handling car, but still give you a comfortable enough suspension that you can drive it every day for run of the mill things like work and going to the store.
The current models that fit the description are the Mazda 2, Honda Fit, and the Fiat 500...especially the Abarth.
GTi does not fit the criteria
2) It cannot be a special or performance edition of said car, so no SVT Focus, SRT-4 Neon (great car though, BTW), GTI Golf, etc... You get the picture. It pretty much has to be the standard model of whatever car you are debating.
Besides, the GTi didn't make it to the United States until 1983, then it had to deal with the Omni GLH a year later. (We got robbed)
The 500 Abarth is excluded. Cool, but excluded by rule 2.
The 500 base model is as much as a Mazda2 Grand Touring. (Not bad though because the base MINI Cooper is $3000 more than that)
We can exclude the Yaris, xD, Accent, and Rio. They just aren't going to handle well enough to compete. That leaves us the Fiesta, Fit, Mazda2, and Sonic.
Haven't driven a Sonic yet (except in the confines of my parking lot and it was an automatic model) But for fun practicality? Fit. Content? Fiesta. Handling? Mazda2.
The one that started it all in the modern era was the VW Golf (Rabbit) GTI. The first two generations (1976-1992) were the best and while more modern models are faster the original and second generation still handle the best and have that rare suspension that gives you a fantastic handling car, but still give you a comfortable enough suspension that you can drive it every day for run of the mill things like work and going to the store.
The current models that fit the description are the Mazda 2, Honda Fit, and the Fiat 500...especially the Abarth.
GTi does not fit the criteria
2) It cannot be a special or performance edition of said car, so no SVT Focus, SRT-4 Neon (great car though, BTW), GTI Golf, etc... You get the picture. It pretty much has to be the standard model of whatever car you are debating.
Besides, the GTi didn't make it to the United States until 1983, then it had to deal with the Omni GLH a year later. (We got robbed)
The 500 Abarth is excluded. Cool, but excluded by rule 2.
The 500 base model is as much as a Mazda2 Grand Touring. (Not bad though because the base MINI Cooper is $3000 more than that)
We can exclude the Yaris, xD, Accent, and Rio. They just aren't going to handle well enough to compete. That leaves us the Fiesta, Fit, Mazda2, and Sonic.
Haven't driven a Sonic yet (except in the confines of my parking lot and it was an automatic model) But for fun practicality? Fit. Content? Fiesta. Handling? Mazda2.
I think that to qualify as a proper econobox there must be something about the car such that most drivers of a midsized sedan could drive it for ten minutes and come away with the impression that the car is a pile of junk.
If a car seems to be too "nice" overall it looses it's qualifications for being an econobox. If a car drives too well, it can make up for that by being ugly or difficult to get into and out of or it can make scary noises but it's got to be in at least one way noticeably "not nice" to qualify as a true econobox.
If a car seems to be too "nice" overall it looses it's qualifications for being an econobox. If a car drives too well, it can make up for that by being ugly or difficult to get into and out of or it can make scary noises but it's got to be in at least one way noticeably "not nice" to qualify as a true econobox.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Integra (GSR, Type R, etc) is a good handling compact, but not an econobox. It costs $20k NEW, or more.
Just the GS-R and Type R? Sure. Type Rs in Dallas were selling at $5000 over sticker price (meanwhile, just a short drive to Oklahoma City they were at or below MSRP...all about demand)
But the Integra RS was less expensive than the $17,000 '99-'00 Civic Si. You had to go without a rear wiper, alloy wheels, moonroof, and don't even think about the extra set of cam lobes. Power falls off at about 6500 rpm. It still handles remarkably well.
Integra LS comes in about even and the Integra GS with leather came out a little higher than the EM1 Civic Si.
The RS cost around 17000 if you want automatic and AC (I got one new in 97 for around that price). It does have a rear wiper (for the hatch), but the rest is accurate.
Back then econobox would cost 13k new (Civic and Corolla).
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Integra (GSR, Type R, etc) is a good handling compact, but not an econobox. It costs $20k NEW, or more.
Just the GS-R and Type R? Sure. Type Rs in Dallas were selling at $5000 over sticker price (meanwhile, just a short drive to Oklahoma City they were at or below MSRP...all about demand)
But the Integra RS was less expensive than the $17,000 '99-'00 Civic Si. You had to go without a rear wiper, alloy wheels, moonroof, and don't even think about the extra set of cam lobes. Power falls off at about 6500 rpm. It still handles remarkably well.
Integra LS comes in about even and the Integra GS with leather came out a little higher than the EM1 Civic Si.
The RS cost around 17000 if you want automatic and AC (I got one new in 97 for around that price). It does have a rear wiper (for the hatch), but the rest is accurate.
Back then econobox would cost 13k new (Civic and Corolla).
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
What about Fiat 500? I've heard these are fun, although probably not speed demons unless you go for the Abarth version.
...For Abarth speed demon, add the plug and play Magneti Marelli (a Fiat company) engine controller. For $800 it bumps the engine up to 200 horsepower!
However, not qualified for this thread so..
Another vote for Neon. I have a 2nd gen R/T that I use for the daily commute. It handled well stock and comes with MTX and very good 4 wheel disc w/ABS. To make the monotony a little more interesting, I upgraded the suspensionn a bit. Stabilizer bars, struts, wheels/tires, springs, bushings and control arms were all replaced with quality stuff, no made in China.
The car was a good handler stock, but with easy suspension mods, it is capable of ludicrous speed in the turns when I feel like scaring myself. Haven't really explored it's full potential though since I am on public roads and Neons aren't exactly 5 star crash rated.
What about Fiat 500? I've heard these are fun, although probably not speed demons unless you go for the Abarth version.
...For Abarth speed demon, add the plug and play Magneti Marelli (a Fiat company) engine controller. For $800 it bumps the engine up to 200 horsepower!
Another vote for Neon. I have a 2nd gen R/T that I use for the daily commute. It handled well stock and comes with MTX and very good 4 wheel disc w/ABS. To make the monotony a little more interesting, I upgraded the suspensionn a bit. Stabilizer bars, struts, wheels/tires, springs, bushings and control arms were all replaced with quality stuff, no made in China.
The car was a good handler stock, but with easy suspension mods, it is capable of ludicrous speed in the turns when I feel like scaring myself. Haven't really explored it's full potential though since I am on public roads and Neons aren't exactly 5 star crash rated.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The 500 base model is as much as a Mazda2 Grand Touring.
So what does that mean? The 500 is not an econobox?
The 500 base model is as much as a Mazda2 Grand Touring.
So what does that mean? The 500 is not an econobox?
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
The one that started it all in the modern era was the VW Golf (Rabbit) GTI. The first two generations (1976-1992) were the best and while more modern models are faster the original and second generation still handle the best and have that rare suspension that gives you a fantastic handling car, but still give you a comfortable enough suspension that you can drive it every day for run of the mill things like work and going to the store.
The current models that fit the description are the Mazda 2, Honda Fit, and the Fiat 500...especially the Abarth.
Absolutely right about the GTI! I loved mine.
But it is banned here!
The one that started it all in the modern era was the VW Golf (Rabbit) GTI. The first two generations (1976-1992) were the best and while more modern models are faster the original and second generation still handle the best and have that rare suspension that gives you a fantastic handling car, but still give you a comfortable enough suspension that you can drive it every day for run of the mill things like work and going to the store.
The current models that fit the description are the Mazda 2, Honda Fit, and the Fiat 500...especially the Abarth.
Absolutely right about the GTI! I loved mine.
But it is banned here!
Ok for a stock bare bones car I love my 1996 Contour GL with the 2.0 Zetec, 5 sp manual tranny and the optional wider aluminum wheels that had 205 60 15 tires as the factory size. Now remember this is 1996 and this is a barish bones model. The handling is great and controlled, loves to be tossed into curves and turns. The engine has lots of low end torque and yet will easily rev to 6,000+ rpm. Even the seats are form fitting and comfortable enough for long rides. On my trip from NJ to Key West last year I got 33 mpg average. This is doing 75-80 miles per hour on the highway for hours on end. It's 17 years old, bought it new. I still have it and still love it. I believe the early production US Contours carried many of the traits of the European Contours. But sadly by MY 1997 they were more "Americanized".
Whimsey
Whimsey
I would add nean ACR, just check the box when odering, cleaned house in SCCA.
Another would be OMNI GLH, again a std production car anyone could buy, ditto Shadow ES turbo, Daytona Turbo etc very large numbers of these cars were made.
Other sleeper PT GT.
Another would be OMNI GLH, again a std production car anyone could buy, ditto Shadow ES turbo, Daytona Turbo etc very large numbers of these cars were made.
Other sleeper PT GT.
Originally Posted By: VNTS
I would add nean ACR, just check the box when odering, cleaned house in SCCA.
Another would be OMNI GLH, again a std production car anyone could buy, ditto Shadow ES turbo, Daytona Turbo etc very large numbers of these cars were made.
Other sleeper PT GT.
Agree^^^ I had a 1984 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo, and a 1986 Mustang GT. I Liked the Laser sooo much better. It out handled, out rode, and was almost as fast as the mustang. Maybe just as fast.
I would add nean ACR, just check the box when odering, cleaned house in SCCA.
Another would be OMNI GLH, again a std production car anyone could buy, ditto Shadow ES turbo, Daytona Turbo etc very large numbers of these cars were made.
Other sleeper PT GT.
Agree^^^ I had a 1984 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo, and a 1986 Mustang GT. I Liked the Laser sooo much better. It out handled, out rode, and was almost as fast as the mustang. Maybe just as fast.
Lexus
I still have 3 Daytonas, one is my 86 CS Black with t-tops, black leather. I run a tweaked GLHS stg 2 puter, 555 getrag, +20 injectors, 3" exhaust, Bilstein struts and shocks, my brother ordered the car in 86 and came with the big sway bars, and max performance suspension. I upgraded the intake and convered to T2 and used Shelby rad cooler set up.
dated by todays standards since it is crippled with the rear trailing arm but very robust design.
Nice car with the gold crab wheels, went thru the car 7 years ago with new paint. these were good cars if maintained.
I still have 3 Daytonas, one is my 86 CS Black with t-tops, black leather. I run a tweaked GLHS stg 2 puter, 555 getrag, +20 injectors, 3" exhaust, Bilstein struts and shocks, my brother ordered the car in 86 and came with the big sway bars, and max performance suspension. I upgraded the intake and convered to T2 and used Shelby rad cooler set up.
dated by todays standards since it is crippled with the rear trailing arm but very robust design.
Nice car with the gold crab wheels, went thru the car 7 years ago with new paint. these were good cars if maintained.
Originally Posted By: VNTS
I would add nean ACR, just check the box when odering, cleaned house in SCCA.
Note that the 98 R/T I had came with everything the ACR had, just was heavier. Even had the shorter gearing. Unless you guys have track time in one you'll never understand how easy these cars were to drive at their limits. Truly the definition of a good handler in a fwd platform.
I would add nean ACR, just check the box when odering, cleaned house in SCCA.
Note that the 98 R/T I had came with everything the ACR had, just was heavier. Even had the shorter gearing. Unless you guys have track time in one you'll never understand how easy these cars were to drive at their limits. Truly the definition of a good handler in a fwd platform.
Originally Posted By: VNTS
I would add nean ACR, just check the box when odering, cleaned house in SCCA.
Another would be OMNI GLH, again a std production car anyone could buy, ditto Shadow ES turbo, Daytona Turbo etc very large numbers of these cars were made.
Other sleeper PT GT.
The Daytona was a bit on the heavy side.
Park one next to a 3rd gen Camaro-bird and it's virtually the same length.
But I still loved mine. 1986 Daytona Turbo-Z C/S w/ T-tops. It was completely trouble free until it hit 100,000 miles which is a lot more than I can say for a lot of '80s turbo cars.
I'll go head to head in a reliability comparison with a turbo Chrysler vs any Sunbird turbo, Mitsubishi 4G54 Turbo or Isuzu 4CZ1 Turbo. Either of my turbo Chryslers. My former 2.2 Turbo I or my current A855 PT Cruiser.
I would add nean ACR, just check the box when odering, cleaned house in SCCA.
Another would be OMNI GLH, again a std production car anyone could buy, ditto Shadow ES turbo, Daytona Turbo etc very large numbers of these cars were made.
Other sleeper PT GT.
The Daytona was a bit on the heavy side.
Park one next to a 3rd gen Camaro-bird and it's virtually the same length.
But I still loved mine. 1986 Daytona Turbo-Z C/S w/ T-tops. It was completely trouble free until it hit 100,000 miles which is a lot more than I can say for a lot of '80s turbo cars.
I'll go head to head in a reliability comparison with a turbo Chrysler vs any Sunbird turbo, Mitsubishi 4G54 Turbo or Isuzu 4CZ1 Turbo. Either of my turbo Chryslers. My former 2.2 Turbo I or my current A855 PT Cruiser.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Integra (GSR, Type R, etc) is a good handling compact, but not an econobox. It costs $20k NEW, or more.
Just the GS-R and Type R? Sure. Type Rs in Dallas were selling at $5000 over sticker price (meanwhile, just a short drive to Oklahoma City they were at or below MSRP...all about demand)
But the Integra RS was less expensive than the $17,000 '99-'00 Civic Si. You had to go without a rear wiper, alloy wheels, moonroof, and don't even think about the extra set of cam lobes. Power falls off at about 6500 rpm. It still handles remarkably well.
Integra LS comes in about even and the Integra GS with leather came out a little higher than the EM1 Civic Si.
The RS cost around 17000 if you want automatic and AC (I got one new in 97 for around that price). It does have a rear wiper (for the hatch), but the rest is accurate.
Back then econobox would cost 13k new (Civic and Corolla).
5speed RS was about $16,000. The one I looked at had a slightly domed metal plug in place of the rear wiper. I remember the price because I really wanted a Type R but I just couldn't sink $25,000 into a car. (and still won't) So I lusted after the RS and bought a used EH9 Civic instead.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Integra (GSR, Type R, etc) is a good handling compact, but not an econobox. It costs $20k NEW, or more.
Just the GS-R and Type R? Sure. Type Rs in Dallas were selling at $5000 over sticker price (meanwhile, just a short drive to Oklahoma City they were at or below MSRP...all about demand)
But the Integra RS was less expensive than the $17,000 '99-'00 Civic Si. You had to go without a rear wiper, alloy wheels, moonroof, and don't even think about the extra set of cam lobes. Power falls off at about 6500 rpm. It still handles remarkably well.
Integra LS comes in about even and the Integra GS with leather came out a little higher than the EM1 Civic Si.
The RS cost around 17000 if you want automatic and AC (I got one new in 97 for around that price). It does have a rear wiper (for the hatch), but the rest is accurate.
Back then econobox would cost 13k new (Civic and Corolla).
5speed RS was about $16,000. The one I looked at had a slightly domed metal plug in place of the rear wiper. I remember the price because I really wanted a Type R but I just couldn't sink $25,000 into a car. (and still won't) So I lusted after the RS and bought a used EH9 Civic instead.
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