Best Brand of Gasoline

[Sierra977]

Originally Posted by kstanf150
Can't go wrong with Chevron
May have changed by now 🤔
But Chevron was the choice pick for car makers to test engines for mpg test in the past


That's because Grady Davis was in upper management at Gulf (now Chevron) for decades. The same Grady Davis behind the Gulf GT40's and Gulf 917 Porsches at Le Mans. He was Executive VP after being Operations VP of Gulf Oil Corporation. Grady Davis knew his stuff.

Grady Davis with John Wyer looking over a Porsche 917 when it was brand new. John Wyer is doing the pointing

You might recognize this paint scheme. These were Gulf Racing colors after Wyer convinced Davis to go with light blue

Before John Wyer's involvement, Gulf Racing colors were dark blue and burnt orange as seen here on Grady Davis' personal car

But enough pictures. Grady Davis (University of Texas and Harvard) was the reason Gulf products were used for standards testing.

 

[kstanf150]

Cool stuff
Thanks for the info !!ðŸ‘

 

[anndel]

Costco 99% of the time. If don't want to drive 10 miles to the nearest Costco then Hele, both are Top Tier certified brands. Only 1 refinery here in Hawaii - Par Petroleum which owns Hele Gas.

 

[pbm]

My previous post got a bit long-winded....so the short answer is EXXON....'Synergy' seems to be the real deal....

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by kstanf150
Anyone have a favorite brand of gasoline they buy over any other brand when available ?

In this order.....
Shell
Mobil/Exxon
Sunoco

 

[wemay]

In this order:

Chevron
Marathon
Exxon / Mobil
Shell
Costco

 

[kstanf150]

My son drives a mustang and he only burns 93 Shell V Power only
If you've ever smelled true racing gas
Shell V Power in a cat less Mustang smells a lot like
racing gas ðŸ‘

 

[HowAboutThis]

Cheapest Top Tier retailer I see on my commute. Usually Arco. I'd do Costco but the lines are ridiculous.

 

[das_peikko]

Originally Posted by pbm
My previous post got a bit long-winded....so the short answer is EXXON....'Synergy' seems to be the real deal....


Back when I had my 1970 Mercury Cougar XR7, 351 Cleveland, it loved Exxon gasoline for some reason. It hated Chevron.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by csandste
Always top tier. Probably 90 percent Costco. Most of the rest probably QT. Used to be Circle K til they went non TT.


That's news to me!

It seems like ALLL OF THE Valero stations in Texas are switching to Circle K.

If Circle K isn't TT, I'm not buying there anymore.

The stickers on the pumps all still say TT though?

 

[dave1251]

I'm one of the consumers somehow getting a lot better gas mileage with 76. It is not logical the difference is real.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by csandste
Always top tier. Probably 90 percent Costco. Most of the rest probably QT. Used to be Circle K til they went non TT.


That's news to me!

It seems like ALLL OF THE Valero stations in Texas are switching to Circle K.

If Circle K isn't TT, I'm not buying there anymore.

The stickers on the pumps all still say TT though?



Circle K it is not TT.

 

[sloinker]

Terrible Herbst

 

[y_p_w]

TiredTrucker has posted about his experience delivering fuel from the rack to the gas station. He would arrive at a terminal, have a card key, and everything including the type of fuel, amount of fuel, and the amount/type of additive to be added to the tanker would be dispensed. The terminal operators are hardly going to stand for anyone trying to cheat the system. They have no incentive to allow anyone to do that. They have contracts that say their inputs must meet certain standards and contracts with their customers saying that the fuel delivered must meet those same standards. They will be [censored] if anyone is trying to cheat because it would make them look bad if anyone audits the fuel for quality.

The vast majority of base fuel is delivered to fuel terminals as commodity grade fuel that meets certain specs. A customer can specify a "segregated" delivery, but then it costs more and you're going to need to pay for you own tank. It gets sent in there from multiple refineries as routed by the pipeline operator. Once the fuel from 2 to 5 refineries is commingled in the same tank, it's near impossible to say who it's from. It would be like multiple streams feeding into a lake. And nearly all the customers are going to tap that commingled fuel from the same tanks.

It's not to say there aren't differences in base fuel, but I get that it's very difficult to control energy content which varies from batch to batch. They just want it to meet octane requirements and RFG requirements. The fuel can be audited at any step, so anyone who cheats is going to get in serious trouble for cheating.

As far as the requirements for Top Tier goes, it's really a performance standard. It doesn't require any specific additive chemistry. But roughly it is 2.5x the amount of EPA minimums. Phillips 66 may say they go beyond that, but Chevron, Shell, and Costco go even beyond that. Costco says 5x the EPA minimums. As for what's used - there's no specific requirement for PEA and there isn't necessarily going to be anything public that specifies their trade secrets. Several additive companies make what they call "Mannich reaction" detergent additives, although I'm not sure what exactly that is.

Every detergent additive that is used for retail fuel in the US has to be listed on the EPA list of certified detergent additives. And only a few of these are oil companies with refining operations - Chevron, Sunoco, and maybe Total (Puerto Rico). So Shell, ExxonMobil, Phillips 66 (Phillips, Conoco, 76), BP/Amoco, etc. don't actually make their own detergent additive. Infineum (the ExxonMobil-Shell joint venture) used to have a single additive on the list but no longer. There's one called BP Amoco LTS made by Innospec. The big names are Afton, Chevron/Oronite, BASF, Afton, Innospec, and Lubrizol. Sunoco has a long list, but I'm not sure they really need 30 additives just for their own fuel. Maybe they're selling some to other companies.

https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels1/ffars/web-detrg.htm

Here are typical additives that have been certified for Top Tier requirements. Basically all a fuel retailer would need to do is buy something like this and submit the additive company's test results as well as an agreement to use at least that amount of detergent.

https://www.aftonchemical.com/SBU/F...rmance-Additives/Sub/Gasoline/HiTEC-6590
https://www.oronite.com/products-technology/fuel-additives.aspx
https://news.thomasnet.com/companys...tes-updated-top-tier-requirements-839991
http://newscenter.lubrizol.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=250972&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1650006

Also - there is no ConocoPhillips in the retail fuel market. They are purely an energy exploration company now. The spun off Phillips 66 which is now a refining and fuel marketing operation.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Wolf359
The BTU content of gas is the same, only the additive package is different. Temperature, hills, speed, warm/cold engine etc are all factors that could affect gas mileage.

Actually no it is not. I linked an article a while back that discussed trying to measure "real world" fuel economy and they noted that even at the same gas station the energy content of the gasoline varied by up to 4%. In order to even begin to get some sort of accurate number the use of standardized test fuel was required. The variation in energy density they observed was more than enough to swamp many of the other variables in driving. This observed difference was independent of the swings one sees between winter and summer fuel if you live in northern states.

As an aside it was a good illustration of why it is impossible to discern the fuel economy effects often claimed by 3rd party additive manufacturers. With the myriad of uncontrolled variables in everyday driving (many of which you list above) it is in fact impossible to detect the relatively small change any such additive may cause.


While technically true, as noted before, most of the gas from a region comes from the same tank farm. So if you're trying gas from different areas at the same time, the btu content of that particular batch of gas will pretty much all be the same. I believe it also varies from winter/summer so there's still variations at different times.

Basically it's a standard math problem, too many variables that can't be controlled, answers given so far based on anecdotal evidence is worthless.

I suggest this butt dyno to figure out how much power a particular brand puts out.

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
While technically true, as noted before, most of the gas from a region comes from the same tank farm. So if you're trying gas from different areas at the same time, the btu content of that particular batch of gas will pretty much all be the same. I believe it also varies from winter/summer so there's still variations at different times.

Basically it's a standard math problem, too many variables that can't be controlled, answers given so far based on anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Depends on where one lives. I just happen to live close enough to Richmond, California - which has a grand total of 4 fuel terminals (Chevron, Phillips 66, Kinder Morgan, Plains All American) and one refinery. Plus 3 other refineries in the same county, and one more in a neighboring county. Even then I doubt that Chevron is only Chevron refined fuel. That refinery stops production often enough that they're going to have to buy fuel on the spot market. And when Chevron wants to "transport" 100,000 barrels of gasoline from their refinery to various fuel terminals, it's probably as a "fungible" shipment where it's basically a contract to delivery X amount of fuel meeting a certain standard and to receive X amount of similar fuel meeting that same standard at various fuel terminals closer to their retail customers. It's up to the pipeline operator to figure out how to get it there, and often it means they transport fuel short distances, and another customer is providing fuel closer to the destination. Colonial explains it pretty well:

Quote
http://www.colpipe.com/home/about-colonial/frequently-asked-questions

What is the difference between fungible and segregated products?

Fungible products shipped on the Colonial system are generic products. These products meet published Colonial specifications. Shippers will receive equivalent product but may not get back the actual product shipped. Segregated products are branded products or blendstock materials. On segregated shipments shippers receive the same product they injected into the system.

Certainly they could pay for a segregated delivery, but they're not emotionally attached to the quality of their base fuel. Chevron, Shell, BP, Valero, and even some small-time refiners know their base fuel is not better or worse than their competitors. So they don't really care that their customers are drawing from a fungible commodity as long as it's to spec and their branded additive is used.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Most gasoline now is pure junk. When I used to work on the pipeline all our premium had to be 95 octane. 91 Octane was cut rate regular.

but octane serves no purpose for the common car engine so what's the point? I buy the cheapest stuff and I seem to get home just fine, every night.

 

[Tahoe4Life]

I only use Mobil regular 87 since the 70's. I find their stations are well maintained and checked frequently by supervisors out in the field. They are always checking their tanks for issues. I have had issues with Chevron fuel while on long trips when a Mobil station could not be found when needed. Mobil 87 ran great in all my V8 GTO'S Caprices,Caddilacs,Tahoes,Suburbans and Ford 5.0 and 4.6 Panthers. The same vehicles ran horribly on Chevron.

In Maryland and New Jersey Sunoco rules on the I-95 corridor and the Garden State Parkway. Have not had a issue with the Sunoco in those areas. Shell rules the Florida Turnpike. Not crazy about Shell.

That is just me. To each their own.

 

[JustinH]

Shell has a points club that saves me 5 to 10 cents per gallon.

Their prices are about 5 to 10 cents higher than anyone else so it works out and I get top tier fuel.

I use their 89 in my hyundai.

 

[Bud_One]

Exxon \ Costco\ Phillips 66 \ Sam's

I don't know why but all my vehicles experience less mpg on Chevron ,Shell , Valero and Sunoco (Stripes)