Benefits of Conventional over Synthetic
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Originally Posted By: stickybuns
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
.im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
With respect, please only post when you learn how to type complete intelligible sentences in English. Thanks
Sorry but the "with respect" didn't really stick to the rest of that statement as well as the stink did.
FYI...Quebec is a province up here in Canada where the first language is French. Last time I checked the Board Rules didn't say anything about a person's grasp of the English language or proper grammar.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
.im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
With respect, please only post when you learn how to type complete intelligible sentences in English. Thanks
Sorry but the "with respect" didn't really stick to the rest of that statement as well as the stink did.
FYI...Quebec is a province up here in Canada where the first language is French. Last time I checked the Board Rules didn't say anything about a person's grasp of the English language or proper grammar.
The thing is, punctuation, capitalization and spaces between letters is universal between languages. It only contributes to the confusion when it is coupled with bad grammar. When you have both it makes it nearly impossible to discern meaning.
Originally Posted By: cp3
Originally Posted By: stickybuns
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
.im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
With respect, please only post when you learn how to type complete intelligible sentences in English. Thanks
Sorry but the "with respect" didn't really stick to the rest of that statement as well as the stink did.
FYI...Quebec is a province up here in Canada where the first language is French. Last time I checked the Board Rules didn't say anything about a person's grasp of the English language or proper grammar.
Originally Posted By: cp3
Originally Posted By: stickybuns
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
.im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
With respect, please only post when you learn how to type complete intelligible sentences in English. Thanks
Sorry but the "with respect" didn't really stick to the rest of that statement as well as the stink did.
FYI...Quebec is a province up here in Canada where the first language is French. Last time I checked the Board Rules didn't say anything about a person's grasp of the English language or proper grammar.
"impossible to discern meaning"......really?
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
.im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
My mistake, maybe it's strictly a Nationality thing then, 'cause I got it.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
.im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
My mistake, maybe it's strictly a Nationality thing then, 'cause I got it.
Originally Posted By: jrustles
In terms of mineral oils, lower (less satrurated) groups tend to be more polar.
In terms of synthetic, GrIII and PAO are 'dry' and have virtually nil polarity. Polarity generally indicates film strength (molecules sticking to- and entraining themselves with each other, in turn aiding the buildup of a hydrodynamic film) and the ability to stick to parts. Dry oils must include solubility improvers in their PI pack for satisfactory performance.
POE bases have superior solubility, high temperature oxidation resistance and high polarity vs the rest, thus their excellent wear and cleanliness performance, but can suffer hydrolytic degradation making pure POE based oils not that suitable for short-tripping, extended OCI IMO.
So, conventional vs synthetic is not much of a clear distinction when discussing what's "better". Further, each type of base oil has an equilibrium of pros and cons, even GrI, and it's not always about cost. There are some industrial applications where GrI performs best
would you mind explaining hydraulic degradation ?(motor oil)poe sound like it would be the best oil for 3000 mile oil change.could you include some oil name that are poe for engine (sn rated)ps
k its similar to ethanol (it love water)
In terms of mineral oils, lower (less satrurated) groups tend to be more polar.
In terms of synthetic, GrIII and PAO are 'dry' and have virtually nil polarity. Polarity generally indicates film strength (molecules sticking to- and entraining themselves with each other, in turn aiding the buildup of a hydrodynamic film) and the ability to stick to parts. Dry oils must include solubility improvers in their PI pack for satisfactory performance.
POE bases have superior solubility, high temperature oxidation resistance and high polarity vs the rest, thus their excellent wear and cleanliness performance, but can suffer hydrolytic degradation making pure POE based oils not that suitable for short-tripping, extended OCI IMO.
So, conventional vs synthetic is not much of a clear distinction when discussing what's "better". Further, each type of base oil has an equilibrium of pros and cons, even GrI, and it's not always about cost. There are some industrial applications where GrI performs best
would you mind explaining hydraulic degradation ?(motor oil)poe sound like it would be the best oil for 3000 mile oil change.could you include some oil name that are poe for engine (sn rated)ps
k its similar to ethanol (it love water)
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Originally Posted By: Lex94
It isn't nationality....
I'll take an awful stab at it (I haven't taken French in 15 years).
Je ne pas parle Francais tres bien, allouer moi ouvre avec la. Le dictation avec le langue ne pas native c'est une feature dans le "Google Chrome". La "spell check" c'est universale. Le feature c'est present aussi dans la "Firefox". La grammaire un peu difficile pour la individuel ne pas parle le langue tres bien (moi pour exemple). Une autre personne, une individuel avec facilite, n'est past le difficulte.
And that ends my butchering of the French language
It isn't nationality....
I'll take an awful stab at it (I haven't taken French in 15 years).
Je ne pas parle Francais tres bien, allouer moi ouvre avec la. Le dictation avec le langue ne pas native c'est une feature dans le "Google Chrome". La "spell check" c'est universale. Le feature c'est present aussi dans la "Firefox". La grammaire un peu difficile pour la individuel ne pas parle le langue tres bien (moi pour exemple). Une autre personne, une individuel avec facilite, n'est past le difficulte.
And that ends my butchering of the French language
It's not hydraulic degradation, it is hydrolytic degradation. Hydrolysis - reacts with water. I don't know the exact process with a polyalphaolefin but it would involve reacting with the water and causing a degradation in the material properties, making it less suitable as a lubricant. A lot of times hydrolysis is most favorable in the presence of a base or acid, which you would have in the oil - and would be especially present if you make lots of short trips.
In other words, the oil reacts with water and degrades.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
would you mind explaining hydraulic degradation ?(motor oil)poe sound like it would be the best oil for 3000 mile oil change.could you include some oil name that are poe for engine (sn rated)psk its similar to ethanol (it love water)
In other words, the oil reacts with water and degrades.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
would you mind explaining hydraulic degradation ?(motor oil)poe sound like it would be the best oil for 3000 mile oil change.could you include some oil name that are poe for engine (sn rated)ps
k its similar to ethanol (it love water)Oh ok!my bad! This wouldnt be an issue on big rig since 225 f is a requirement.i ll have to look at uoa .didnt see any water
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Originally Posted By: yvon_la
Oh ok!my bad! This wouldnt be an issue on big rig since 225 f is a requirement.i ll have to look at uoa .didnt see any water
It isn't the application, esters are hydroscopic; they absorb water. Whether the oil can handle 225F (spoiler, they'll handle much higher than that) or not is irrelevant to that. If a vehicle sits around a lot (not being used) in a humid environment, that'll cause an ester-based lubricant to deteriorate more quickly. Or if it is short-tripped and the oil not brought up to temp, putting condensation in the sump, same thing.
Oh ok!my bad! This wouldnt be an issue on big rig since 225 f is a requirement.i ll have to look at uoa .didnt see any water
It isn't the application, esters are hydroscopic; they absorb water. Whether the oil can handle 225F (spoiler, they'll handle much higher than that) or not is irrelevant to that. If a vehicle sits around a lot (not being used) in a humid environment, that'll cause an ester-based lubricant to deteriorate more quickly. Or if it is short-tripped and the oil not brought up to temp, putting condensation in the sump, same thing.
To the meat of the synthetic "my team" newbie defenders - If in the U.S. you have likely NOT been using a real synthetic oil - just an "advertised as" synthetic oil. So your touch point is a premium hydrotreated mineral oil not a synthetized lubricant based oil. That applies to you Royal purple guys too. Thank goodness, though, for RD Shell's Purebase and British Petrol's Castrol Edge with Ti being available at reasonable cost outlay.
- Jeepers, they are not American companies! ;(
- Jeepers, they are not American companies! ;(
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It all has to do with cost and how much you enjoy maintenance of your vehicle.
A premium dino, like PYB at $16 and some change for a 5 quart jug, is an outstanding bargain today.
You can buy synthetic oil but your cost per mile goes up unless you extend your OCI.
So check your owner's manual and if it is permissible, dino at 5,000 mile OCI's will get you many, many miles down the road.
But if you don't change your oil religiously, using a premium synthetic oil will give you some peace of mind.
That way, when your wife tells you the car is 3,500 miles overdue, you'll have it covered.
What is "Dino Oil"? I see this once and a while, but don't understand. Synthetic and Non-Synthetic oil comes from the same barrel of oil. Synthetic oil not from anything else.
It all has to do with cost and how much you enjoy maintenance of your vehicle.
A premium dino, like PYB at $16 and some change for a 5 quart jug, is an outstanding bargain today.
You can buy synthetic oil but your cost per mile goes up unless you extend your OCI.
So check your owner's manual and if it is permissible, dino at 5,000 mile OCI's will get you many, many miles down the road.
But if you don't change your oil religiously, using a premium synthetic oil will give you some peace of mind.
That way, when your wife tells you the car is 3,500 miles overdue, you'll have it covered.
What is "Dino Oil"? I see this once and a while, but don't understand. Synthetic and Non-Synthetic oil comes from the same barrel of oil. Synthetic oil not from anything else.
The synthetic oil from the bbl of mineral oil is not synthetic - it is a "near-synthetic performing" premium oil. IMO, They don't perform like the real deal - I've used 'em both and a good grp iv/v blend is the cats meow - and I would include the iso-paraffin shell GTL as good stuff.
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$100 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: acme
What is "Dino Oil"? I see this once and a while, but don't understand. Synthetic and Non-Synthetic oil comes from the same barrel of oil. Synthetic oil not from anything else.
They do not come from the same barrel of oil
Dino oil is conventional oil. It comes from the ground, then is refined into what we use in our cars for conventional oil.
Synthetic oil is man-made. It does not come from the ground.
What is "Dino Oil"? I see this once and a while, but don't understand. Synthetic and Non-Synthetic oil comes from the same barrel of oil. Synthetic oil not from anything else.
They do not come from the same barrel of oil
Dino oil is conventional oil. It comes from the ground, then is refined into what we use in our cars for conventional oil.
Synthetic oil is man-made. It does not come from the ground.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: acme
What is "Dino Oil"? I see this once and a while, but don't understand. Synthetic and Non-Synthetic oil comes from the same barrel of oil. Synthetic oil not from anything else.
They do not come from the same barrel of oil
Dino oil is conventional oil. It comes from the ground, then is refined into what we use in our cars for conventional oil.
Synthetic oil is man-made. It does not come from the ground.
Man-made... from what?
Originally Posted By: acme
What is "Dino Oil"? I see this once and a while, but don't understand. Synthetic and Non-Synthetic oil comes from the same barrel of oil. Synthetic oil not from anything else.
They do not come from the same barrel of oil
Dino oil is conventional oil. It comes from the ground, then is refined into what we use in our cars for conventional oil.
Synthetic oil is man-made. It does not come from the ground.
Man-made... from what?
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Synthetic oil is man-made. It does not come from the ground.
Man-made... from what?
Typically from stuff that came out of the ground.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Synthetic oil is man-made. It does not come from the ground.
Man-made... from what?
Typically from stuff that came out of the ground.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
To the meat of the synthetic "my team" newbie defenders - If in the U.S. you have likely NOT been using a real synthetic oil - just an "advertised as" synthetic oil. So your touch point is a premium hydrotreated mineral oil not a synthetized lubricant based oil. That applies to you Royal purple guys too. Thank goodness, though, for RD Shell's Purebase and British Petrol's Castrol Edge with Ti being available at reasonable cost outlay.
- Jeepers, they are not American companies! ;(
Not sure if serious but RP uses PAO base.
To the meat of the synthetic "my team" newbie defenders - If in the U.S. you have likely NOT been using a real synthetic oil - just an "advertised as" synthetic oil. So your touch point is a premium hydrotreated mineral oil not a synthetized lubricant based oil. That applies to you Royal purple guys too. Thank goodness, though, for RD Shell's Purebase and British Petrol's Castrol Edge with Ti being available at reasonable cost outlay.
- Jeepers, they are not American companies! ;(
Not sure if serious but RP uses PAO base.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Synthetic oil is man-made. It does not come from the ground.
Man-made... from what?
Typically from stuff that came out of the ground.
I didn't mean it comes from nowhere and is totally man made, I meant it's not so much crude oil pumped from underground and then refined.
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Synthetic oil is man-made. It does not come from the ground.
Man-made... from what?
Typically from stuff that came out of the ground.
I didn't mean it comes from nowhere and is totally man made, I meant it's not so much crude oil pumped from underground and then refined.
In the southern hemisphere, it is made from Vegemite.
Man-made meaning the HC chain did not occur in nature and was synthesized at a molecular level...Hydrocracking and GTL are examples. "Dino oil" was funny the first 1000 times I heard it. A lot of people don't even understand what "synthetic" oil really is.
Man-made meaning the HC chain did not occur in nature and was synthesized at a molecular level...Hydrocracking and GTL are examples. "Dino oil" was funny the first 1000 times I heard it. A lot of people don't even understand what "synthetic" oil really is.
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Can you explain to us the difference between severe hydrocracking and synthesis from gas? Also if you go into the specific drawbacks to severe hydrocracking and how it degrades the finished product's properties that would be great.
Just to start off, a severely hydrocracked synthetic oil is not the same as a hydrotreated one, nor is the latter even called "synthetic". That was never part of the lawsuit.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
To the meat of the synthetic "my team" newbie defenders - If in the U.S. you have likely NOT been using a real synthetic oil - just an "advertised as" synthetic oil. So your touch point is a premium hydrotreated mineral oil not a synthetized lubricant based oil. That applies to you Royal purple guys too. Thank goodness, though, for RD Shell's Purebase and British Petrol's Castrol Edge with Ti being available at reasonable cost outlay.
Just to start off, a severely hydrocracked synthetic oil is not the same as a hydrotreated one, nor is the latter even called "synthetic". That was never part of the lawsuit.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
To the meat of the synthetic "my team" newbie defenders - If in the U.S. you have likely NOT been using a real synthetic oil - just an "advertised as" synthetic oil. So your touch point is a premium hydrotreated mineral oil not a synthetized lubricant based oil. That applies to you Royal purple guys too. Thank goodness, though, for RD Shell's Purebase and British Petrol's Castrol Edge with Ti being available at reasonable cost outlay.
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