Conventional oil is good for break in of new engines to seat the piston rings. Other than that synthetic out performs conventional oils in most every catogery.
Benefits of Conventional over Synthetic
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I break engines in on syn all the time.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes PYB 5W-20 has a Noack of 6.5% and QSG 7.8%.
Considering SOPUS is swimming in GTL there really is no other cost effective explanation.
But, the stuff they advertise as GTL has mediocre Noack. Maybe the Noack tests were accidentally conducted on a monograde or a 20w-50.
Yes PYB 5W-20 has a Noack of 6.5% and QSG 7.8%.
Considering SOPUS is swimming in GTL there really is no other cost effective explanation.
But, the stuff they advertise as GTL has mediocre Noack. Maybe the Noack tests were accidentally conducted on a monograde or a 20w-50.
Conventionnal oil not as good as synthetic?pc-11 will call for a group 2 oil (unless i am wrong group is what most trucking corp use!turbo see 1100f daily ,1500 pound feet of torque daily ,are kept between 1100 and 1400 rpm ,these punishement take an insane oil ,fuel pressure is 28000 combustion chamber is in the 17 to 21 of compression .plus you have laws that prevent the oil from behing too far from 225 f (normal)and now a day turbo have variable geometry wich put more pressure on the oil.dont sweat it ,if a trucking group 2 oil is bad within the year every trucker will know to stay away from said brand.so no conventional oil are as good as any oil after 3 minute of warming the engine
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Synthetics have a better formulation. Better base stocks, better additive packages. They are just better oils, all around.
Maybe for the premium products. Not likely for the lowest cost so-called full synthetics. There are variations in Group III base stocks. The best are unofficial G-III+. The cheapest are little better than a GR-II+. Any additive pack that meets ILSAC GF-4 and SN will do for the low cost operators.
Synthetics have a better formulation. Better base stocks, better additive packages. They are just better oils, all around.
Maybe for the premium products. Not likely for the lowest cost so-called full synthetics. There are variations in Group III base stocks. The best are unofficial G-III+. The cheapest are little better than a GR-II+. Any additive pack that meets ILSAC GF-4 and SN will do for the low cost operators.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
This is bad since the surface finish is not uniform, so how are these molecules supposed to fill those gaps?
It's better than having square molecules. Conventional has different sized molecules and they're square. Square molecules don't roll too good.
My comment was tongue and cheek, but since you take marketing drivel seriously let's entertain your idea, shall we?
Why would oil molecules need to roll? Oil in the engine is not poured but pumped and the molecules are being squeezed together. Square molecules will leave minimal gaps between them and round molecules will have tons of free space between them.
So, there you go, square molecules, under pressure will have a more uniform structure and film strength.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
This is bad since the surface finish is not uniform, so how are these molecules supposed to fill those gaps?
It's better than having square molecules. Conventional has different sized molecules and they're square. Square molecules don't roll too good.
My comment was tongue and cheek, but since you take marketing drivel seriously let's entertain your idea, shall we?
Why would oil molecules need to roll? Oil in the engine is not poured but pumped and the molecules are being squeezed together. Square molecules will leave minimal gaps between them and round molecules will have tons of free space between them.
So, there you go, square molecules, under pressure will have a more uniform structure and film strength.
Better than?
Probably not.
As good as?
For the OCIs most of us run with the engines that most of us have, probably so.
I've used mostly synthetic oils in my cars for more than twenty years.
For twenty years before that, I used conventional only.
The engines lasted well with either and stayed clean.
If there is any advantage in a synthetic, I'd say that it is mainly apparent during very cold weather and not all syns have great cold numbers.
Other than that, you can use whatever your pocketbook likes and rest assured that your engines will remain clean and will last longer than the assembled car they're installed in.
It's fun to try to find the best oil for your car.
The thing is, the concept is a bit of a myth.
Probably not.
As good as?
For the OCIs most of us run with the engines that most of us have, probably so.
I've used mostly synthetic oils in my cars for more than twenty years.
For twenty years before that, I used conventional only.
The engines lasted well with either and stayed clean.
If there is any advantage in a synthetic, I'd say that it is mainly apparent during very cold weather and not all syns have great cold numbers.
Other than that, you can use whatever your pocketbook likes and rest assured that your engines will remain clean and will last longer than the assembled car they're installed in.
It's fun to try to find the best oil for your car.
The thing is, the concept is a bit of a myth.
In terms of mineral oils, lower (less satrurated) groups tend to be more polar.
In terms of synthetic, GrIII and PAO are 'dry' and have virtually nil polarity. Polarity generally indicates film strength (molecules sticking to- and entraining themselves with each other, in turn aiding the buildup of a hydrodynamic film) and the ability to stick to parts. Dry oils must include solubility improvers in their PI pack for satisfactory performance.
POE bases have superior solubility, high temperature oxidation resistance and high polarity vs the rest, thus their excellent wear and cleanliness performance, but can suffer hydrolytic degradation making pure POE based oils not that suitable for short-tripping, extended OCI IMO.
So, conventional vs synthetic is not much of a clear distinction when discussing what's "better". Further, each type of base oil has an equilibrium of pros and cons, even GrI, and it's not always about cost. There are some industrial applications where GrI performs best
In terms of synthetic, GrIII and PAO are 'dry' and have virtually nil polarity. Polarity generally indicates film strength (molecules sticking to- and entraining themselves with each other, in turn aiding the buildup of a hydrodynamic film) and the ability to stick to parts. Dry oils must include solubility improvers in their PI pack for satisfactory performance.
POE bases have superior solubility, high temperature oxidation resistance and high polarity vs the rest, thus their excellent wear and cleanliness performance, but can suffer hydrolytic degradation making pure POE based oils not that suitable for short-tripping, extended OCI IMO.
So, conventional vs synthetic is not much of a clear distinction when discussing what's "better". Further, each type of base oil has an equilibrium of pros and cons, even GrI, and it's not always about cost. There are some industrial applications where GrI performs best
Originally Posted By: Ken2
Maybe for the premium products. Not likely for the lowest cost so-called full synthetics.
I disagree, but even if you want to go down that road, you have to then compare the "cheapest" syn with the "cheapest" conventional, not a cheap syn with the premium conventional.
Head up, syns win every time.
Maybe for the premium products. Not likely for the lowest cost so-called full synthetics.
I disagree, but even if you want to go down that road, you have to then compare the "cheapest" syn with the "cheapest" conventional, not a cheap syn with the premium conventional.
Head up, syns win every time.
Originally Posted By: jrustles
In terms of mineral oils, lower (less satrurated) groups tend to be more polar.
In terms of synthetic, GrIII and PAO are 'dry' and have virtually nil polarity. Polarity generally indicates film strength (molecules sticking to- and entraining themselves with each other, in turn aiding the buildup of a hydrodynamic film) and the ability to stick to parts. Dry oils must include solubility improvers in their PI pack for satisfactory performance.
POE bases have superior solubility, high temperature oxidation resistance and high polarity vs the rest, thus their excellent wear and cleanliness performance, but can suffer hydrolytic degradation making pure POE based oils not that suitable for short-tripping, extended OCI IMO.
So, conventional vs synthetic is not much of a clear distinction when discussing what's "better". Further, each type of base oil has an equilibrium of pros and cons, even GrI, and it's not always about cost. There are some industrial applications where GrI performs best
im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
In terms of mineral oils, lower (less satrurated) groups tend to be more polar.
In terms of synthetic, GrIII and PAO are 'dry' and have virtually nil polarity. Polarity generally indicates film strength (molecules sticking to- and entraining themselves with each other, in turn aiding the buildup of a hydrodynamic film) and the ability to stick to parts. Dry oils must include solubility improvers in their PI pack for satisfactory performance.
POE bases have superior solubility, high temperature oxidation resistance and high polarity vs the rest, thus their excellent wear and cleanliness performance, but can suffer hydrolytic degradation making pure POE based oils not that suitable for short-tripping, extended OCI IMO.
So, conventional vs synthetic is not much of a clear distinction when discussing what's "better". Further, each type of base oil has an equilibrium of pros and cons, even GrI, and it's not always about cost. There are some industrial applications where GrI performs best
im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
It seems to me the conventional proponents are grasping at straws, trying to find some odd point or loophole or rare special circumstance to claim conventionals are better. Not gonna happen.
Are there conventional oil that make their base out of the weight of the oil (a la synthetic)
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
AFAIK GTL oils are 'dry' like GrIII; the base oil molecules themselves have little to no polarity. The finished oil must have some sort of solubility improver. GTL/GrIII base oils have no cleaning/solvency on their own.
im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
AFAIK GTL oils are 'dry' like GrIII; the base oil molecules themselves have little to no polarity. The finished oil must have some sort of solubility improver. GTL/GrIII base oils have no cleaning/solvency on their own.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
AFAIK GTL oils are 'dry' like GrIII; the base oil molecules themselves have little to no polarity. The finished oil must have some sort of solubility improver. GTL/GrIII base oils have no cleaning/solvency on their own.
That quote at top was not my words!
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
AFAIK GTL oils are 'dry' like GrIII; the base oil molecules themselves have little to no polarity. The finished oil must have some sort of solubility improver. GTL/GrIII base oils have no cleaning/solvency on their own.
That quote at top was not my words!
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
AFAIK GTL oils are 'dry' like GrIII; the base oil molecules themselves have little to no polarity. The finished oil must have some sort of solubility improver. GTL/GrIII base oils have no cleaning/solvency on their own.
That quote at top was not my words!
hahaha that was funny... sorry pal, all fixed
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
AFAIK GTL oils are 'dry' like GrIII; the base oil molecules themselves have little to no polarity. The finished oil must have some sort of solubility improver. GTL/GrIII base oils have no cleaning/solvency on their own.
That quote at top was not my words!
hahaha that was funny... sorry pal, all fixed
Yeah, it will work great just like a synthetic.
Originally Posted By: deven
Conventional oil is good for break in of new engines to seat the piston rings.
Originally Posted By: deven
Conventional oil is good for break in of new engines to seat the piston rings.
Synthetics excel at the extremes. Extreme heat or cold, heavy towing, excessive stop and go driving, extended OCI's, etc. But within the "normal" range, conventionals seem to protect an engine just as good as synthetics do. So within that range, conventional oils win out on price.
However, synthetics seem to have better sale prices or promotions that often make them the same price or cheaper than conventional oils, and thus erasing the benefits of conventional oils.
However, synthetics seem to have better sale prices or promotions that often make them the same price or cheaper than conventional oils, and thus erasing the benefits of conventional oils.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
.im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
With respect, please only post when you learn how to type complete intelligible sentences in English. Thanks
.im not gona make you belive i understood all the term you used .but polarity intriged me.how would you say the new penzoil natural gas oil fare in term of polarity performance wise .one of the better polarity wise or you didnt get to play with it yet?ty for the awsome explaination
With respect, please only post when you learn how to type complete intelligible sentences in English. Thanks
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