Benefits of Conventional over Synthetic

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: stickybuns
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
.
Plus the fact that PYB it is likely a GTL based synthetic oil anyway, as PQIA testing uncovered, so it's even more of a bargain..


PYB is GTL? Evidence from PQIA? I saw a NOACK of 14% (SN 5w-30). Whats the evidence?


I believe he is ref the 5w20. But the inclusion of GTL for even that grade is still not a sure thing. A good assumption? Probably.

Yes PYB 5W-20 has a Noack of 6.5% and QSG 7.8%.
Considering SOPUS is swimming in GTL there really is no other cost effective explanation.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: cookiemonster
Anyone here of the opinion that conventional oil is better than synthetics? and, why?

I've heard some people around the Internet say and write that that is what they believed, without elaborating to my satisfaction. So, I was wondering if there were any here that believed that and could explain.
You cant but a conventional ILSAC oil - so if its for your passenger = car - the point is moot.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: cookiemonster
Anyone here of the opinion that conventional oil is better than synthetics? and, why?

I've heard some people around the Internet say and write that that is what they believed, without elaborating to my satisfaction. So, I was wondering if there were any here that believed that and could explain.


Many variables. But I have found that synthetics keep engines cleaner. Plus they handle heat and severe service better. My vehicles are all operated under severe service so I use synthetics exclusively.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: wemay

.
Plus the fact that PYB it is likely a GTL based synthetic oil anyway, as PQIA testing uncovered, so it's even more of a bargain..



Yes PYB 5W-20 has a Noack of 6.5% and QSG 7.8%.
Considering SOPUS is swimming in GTL there really is no other cost effective explanation.


I agree that those PQIA tested 5w20 PYBs and QSGB were awesome but we can't assume that every bottle purchased contains GTL. SOPUS can use whatever they have because they aren't marketing it as a synthetic.

If I could be sure that every bottle of 5w20 PYB and QSGB were like those tested I'd buy nothing else....

 

[badtlc]

One of the few concerns for Synthetics is for PAO base oils. When you pass the limits of PAO, things go very bad very fast. So it is more important to not push the limit with PAO based synthetics.

 

[CATERHAM]

pbm that is a good point.
The only way to know for sure would be to get the batch numbers of what PQIA tested. We do know the date that they purchased the bottles (12/4/13 for both) which could help but as you say SOPUS could revert to a more conventional formulation at any time.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Isn't conventional gear oil preferred for towing?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Isn't conventional gear oil preferred for towing?

It's not for racing so why would it be for towing?

 

[Merkava_4]

I'll never go back to conventional as long as the price on synthetic is reasonable. Synthetic makes my engine run noticeably smoother. Synthetic has molecules more uniform in size.

 

[Rosetta]

I prefer group III anyway. It's a conventional made synthetic!
That way we make everybody happy in here. Kkk

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I'll never go back to conventional as long as the price on synthetic is reasonable. Synthetic makes my engine run noticeably smoother. Synthetic has molecules more uniform in size.


This is bad since the surface finish is not uniform, so how are these molecules supposed to fill those gaps?

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
One of the few concerns for Synthetics is for PAO base oils. When you pass the limits of PAO, things go very bad very fast. So it is more important to not push the limit with PAO based synthetics.


Synthetics have a better formulation. Better base stocks, better additive packages. They are just better oils, all around.

Notice syns are the oils with extended change interval capabilities.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
This is bad since the surface finish is not uniform, so how are these molecules supposed to fill those gaps?


It's better than having square molecules. Conventional has different sized molecules and they're square. Square molecules don't roll too good.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: badtlc
One of the few concerns for Synthetics is for PAO base oils. When you pass the limits of PAO, things go very bad very fast. So it is more important to not push the limit with PAO based synthetics.


Synthetics have a better formulation. Better base stocks, better additive packages. They are just better oils, all around.

Notice syns are the oils with extended change interval capabilities.


Yes, but when you exceed the capabilities of a PAO, it gets bad quickly. It isn't a slower degradation like a conventional. A conventional you can push to its limit w/out much worry but you should make sure you know the limits of a PAO and not get there.

 

[Lex94]

The very nature of saturated hydrocarbons makes for poor solubility and lubricity. All "Full Synthetics" are really blends in order to hold stuff in suspension. A "Synthetic Blend" is ideal in most cases but todays G2/G2+ conventionals are excellent.

Something like this:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/ACdelco.htm?utm_source=July+3%2C+2014&utm_campaign=7-3-2014&utm_medium=email

 

[Rosetta]

One could compare cost, but performance, no way! Syntetics are better. I believe even that old 5w20 Mobil 1 from 1975 could well pass an API SN or ILSAC GF 4 test, at that time/age. all this time syntetic gave performance that dino cpouldn't for decades. That's my thought. Does anybody has a few quarts of that old M1 oil to do a VOA and ASTM tests?

 

[stickybuns]

As soon as someone shows me a conventional oil that passes dexos1, MercBenz 229, LL-01, VW 502/505, then I'll say conventional is as good as synthetics.

 

[Lex94]

Why can't a G2/G2+ oil pass Dexos1? Which spec(s) can't it pass? Can anyones G2+ base oil pass Dexos1 volatility spec in 20 or 30 grades?

 

[Flareside302]

in no way shape or form are conventionals better than synthetic.

 

[ElastoHydro]

Originally Posted By: Lex94
Why can't a G2/G2+ oil pass Dexos1? Which spec(s) can't it pass? Can anyones G2+ base oil pass Dexos1 volatility spec in 20 or 30 grades?

The dexos1 NOACK max is 13. Some of the pure conventionals on the PQIA Website Link show close to 13. Castrol GTX 5-30 shows 13.5, Valvoline 5-30 is 13.7, and then PYB 5w-20 comes in at around 7, so it beats it, although maybe the basestocks used there aren't consistent, not sure. Conclusion: NOACK appears to be the obstacle to get a conventional dexos1 certified, although there are a lot of other dexos1 tests that need to be performed that might not pass.